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How is Liberalism diffrent in Europe then in America

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naturalplastic
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24 Apr 2012, 2:09 pm

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
Declension wrote:
TM wrote:
I'm just saying that the chance of being punched in the face is smaller if you call an Irishman Irish and a Scot a Scot.


But what happens if you call a Scot Scotch?
We will tell you that we are not an alcoholic beverage. :)


A Scotsman on TV said that the adjective 'Scotch' only applies to "things that can be bought and sold' like our whiskey, our wool, and our members of Parliament.



TM
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24 Apr 2012, 2:25 pm

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
Declension wrote:
TM wrote:
I'm just saying that the chance of being punched in the face is smaller if you call an Irishman Irish and a Scot a Scot.


But what happens if you call a Scot Scotch?
We will tell you that we are not an alcoholic beverage. :)


and I shall be forced to tell you to shut up and pour me an alcoholic beverage! I think whiskey symbolizes the scottish spirit, outside of being the scottish contribution I value the most, its also the only drink that'll make you tell people you've known and care for over a span of years to f**k off and a random dude of the street to come in and have a drink.



TM
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24 Apr 2012, 2:26 pm

ruveyn wrote:
European thinking tends to collectivism. American thinking tends to individualism.

ruveyn


I agree, but then there are a lot of Europeans like me that lean towards individualism, but we tend to be ganged up on by the collectivist cowards. Then again, I always viewed a collectivist as the dude who'd get 10 of his buddies to come with him to whip your ass as opposed to being a man about the whole thing.



AstroGeek
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24 Apr 2012, 3:05 pm

TM wrote:
I agree, but then there are a lot of Europeans like me that lean towards individualism, but we tend to be ganged up on by the collectivist cowards.

That's called democracy and majority rule...



TM
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24 Apr 2012, 3:13 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
TM wrote:
I agree, but then there are a lot of Europeans like me that lean towards individualism, but we tend to be ganged up on by the collectivist cowards.

That's called democracy and majority rule...


A majority tyranny is still tyranny. Plus, as I've said before, I'm not a fan of democracy, it puts too much power into the hands of idiots, case and point, the Tea Party. Egalitarianism is nice in theory, like communism, but fails since everyone isn't equal and those who are "less equal" tend to outnumber those who are "more equal".



naturalplastic
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24 Apr 2012, 3:47 pm

Tequila wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Well.. no.
No idea what that term means.


It's sort of an almost social democratic kind of conservatism. The conservative moment in Europe is wider and much more secular than its North American counterpart.


I didnt say they were the same.
I said they were comparable.

Its a sematic issue.

In Australia they have a "Liberal" party and a "Labor" party.
The liberal party is the conservative party, and the liberal-in-the-american-sense party is the Labor party.

So- you could compare Republicans to Australian "Liberals", and Democrats to Australian Labor voters. And in both cases you might find interesting differences. But you wouldnt compare american "liberals" to Australian "liberals" because it would be peaches to pears.

In continental europe you might compare american liberals to european social democrats but not to 'liberals" because the label isnt even used at all- or is used to mean something completely different.



Joker
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24 Apr 2012, 9:22 pm

ruveyn wrote:
European thinking tends to collectivism. American thinking tends to individualism.

ruveyn


Hmm republican thinking tends to collectivism in america.



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24 Apr 2012, 10:23 pm

TM wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
TM wrote:
I agree, but then there are a lot of Europeans like me that lean towards individualism, but we tend to be ganged up on by the collectivist cowards.

That's called democracy and majority rule...


A majority tyranny is still tyranny. Plus, as I've said before, I'm not a fan of democracy, it puts too much power into the hands of idiots, case and point, the Tea Party. Egalitarianism is nice in theory, like communism, but fails since everyone isn't equal and those who are "less equal" tend to outnumber those who are "more equal".

And that is where we differ. I will certainly admit that democracy has its problems, but I still believe it to be morally necessary and it makes up a part of my fundamental beliefs. People should have the right to determine their own future, and the only form of government that can provide that is democracy. And don't get me wrong--there are some things which I believe must not be allowed to be legislated away, such as fundamental human rights. That is why we have constitutions: so that those things are very difficult to overturn. Canada has its Charter of Rights and Freedoms, for instance, and it was through the Supreme Court's interpretation of that document that gay marriage was legalized.



ruveyn
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26 Apr 2012, 9:21 am

AstroGeek wrote:
TM wrote:
I agree, but then there are a lot of Europeans like me that lean towards individualism, but we tend to be ganged up on by the collectivist cowards.

That's called democracy and majority rule...


Most of the time, the majority is an ass.

ruveyn



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26 Apr 2012, 1:50 pm

TM wrote:
Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
Declension wrote:
TM wrote:
I'm just saying that the chance of being punched in the face is smaller if you call an Irishman Irish and a Scot a Scot.


But what happens if you call a Scot Scotch?
We will tell you that we are not an alcoholic beverage. :)


and I shall be forced to tell you to shut up and pour me an alcoholic beverage! I think whiskey symbolizes the scottish spirit, outside of being the scottish contribution I value the most, its also the only drink that'll make you tell people you've known and care for over a span of years to f**k off and a random dude of the street to come in and have a drink.


The Scots don't make whiskey. They make whisky. Incorrect use of the 'e' is incitement to war. :P



Tequila
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26 Apr 2012, 1:52 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Most of the time, the majority is an ass.


So what is the solution? There doesn't seem to be one from what I can see. All forms of representation are imperfect at best.



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26 Apr 2012, 2:06 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
Joker wrote:
The European Union and the United States of America established diplomatic relations as early as 1953,


The EU exists since 1993. It already existed as the European Economic Community before that point, but I think that doesn't date back as far as 1953 either.


I found that peace of information on Google I always thought the EU was around longer then that?


You are probably mixing it up with the UN or something.


I tend to do that a lot as well :oops:


Well.
The main nations of western europe formed something called "the common market" very soon after world war two to jumpstart trade and rebuild from the war and to resist communism. Basically it was a trading club that reduced tarriffs - there was a vague notion of it as a precurser to political union as well.

The common market then evolved into the European Economic Community (in the seventies I believe).
Then that finnally evolved into the European Union in 1993. Each of these incarnations added more political unity to the economic unity.

The USA encouraged the formation of the Common Market back in the dark days of the cold war but had no desire to join it.

Joker is probably thinking of either the United Nations, or of NATO (the North Atlantic Treaty Organization) which is a military alliance of nations on both sides of the Atlantic ( the USA, canada and most of western europe and even Turkey) that was originally set up to defend against the USSR but still exist in the post communist world.


The EU began a glint in Europe's eye in 1950 when it was known as the Shuman Plan.

This led to the Treaty of Paris in 1952 which established the European Coal and Steel Community.

This was expanded through the Treaty of Rome in 1957 to create the European Economic Community (EEC).

Then in 1993 The Treaty on European Union created the EU. The EEC was officially renamed the European Community (EC) and still exists as a seperate entity within the EU.

2004 the EU expanded to include 10 further countries.



Tequila
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26 Apr 2012, 2:09 pm

MotherKnowsBest wrote:
2004 the EU expanded to include 10 further countries.


And the European project is going swimmingly, isn't it?



ruveyn
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26 Apr 2012, 3:48 pm

Tequila wrote:
MotherKnowsBest wrote:
2004 the EU expanded to include 10 further countries.


And the European project is going swimmingly, isn't it?


What is the "European project"?

ruveyn



Tequila
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26 Apr 2012, 4:10 pm

ruveyn wrote:
What is the "European project"?


The crazed desire for ever closer union within the countries of the EU, destroying national democracies and nation states, no matter how much harm it does to the peoples of Europe. A European Empire, if you like.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3u9LB32YYM[/youtube]