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Green Energy Naysayers

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ruveyn
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30 May 2012, 5:35 pm

Senath wrote:

Oh God. Can you imagine if they installed one of those things and there was somehow an error with the wireless power transmission coordinates? :lol: We'd be lasered!


Ants and magnifying glasses come to mind.

ruveyn



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30 May 2012, 5:41 pm

Senath wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
DC wrote:
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/05/28/climate-germany-solar-idINDEE84R0CY20120528

Germany managed to produce 35% of peak electricity demand from solar power on Friday and 50% of peak demand on Saturday.

You guys still think it so outrageous to abandon fossil fuels?

There is a sexy widget on this website that shows you the figures:

http://www.sma.de/en/company/pv-electri ... rmany.html


What do the Germans do at night?

Try generating solar power at night. See how successful you are.

ruveyn


Perhaps someday that will be a non-issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power


Oh God. Can you imagine if they installed one of those things and there was somehow an error with the wireless power transmission coordinates? :lol: We'd be lasered!


There would have to be multiple levels of safeguard. The most obvious is that it cannot broadcast power when adjusting coordinates and also until it has received multiple confirmations of accuracy.


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30 May 2012, 5:47 pm

I'm imagining someone in the midst of a psychotic episode getting through security and spelling out his full name in capital letters across the Midwest U.S. :chin:



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30 May 2012, 5:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Oodain wrote:

kind of my point,

its a fossil fuel.


If the CO2 can be sequestered economically it can still work out.

ruveyn


true but we would still be faced with an investment that will become useless at one point or the other and we arent talking a thousand years in the future.
we would also have to invest in carbon sequestering techonolgy that we could render obsolete instead(though in reality it might be one of the few ways fo seriously limiting our impact short term)

thorium while limited is so abundant we could run on it for millenia, especially if breeders are employed(then again i think you know that already :wink:)


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30 May 2012, 5:56 pm

Senath wrote:
I'm imagining someone in the midst of a psychotic episode getting through security and spelling out his full name in capital letters across the Midwest U.S. :chin:


That is probably of less likelihood than someone sabotaging and detonating the contents of a nuclear reactor, especially since "getting through security" means hacking through secure networks that would not be part of the "internet"


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30 May 2012, 6:04 pm

When it comes down to it, most sources of power can be weaponized if one wishes it so. Liquid Petroleum Gas tankers or Liquid Natural Gas tankers if detonated could present an explosion of kiloton proportions


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30 May 2012, 6:24 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Senath wrote:
I'm imagining someone in the midst of a psychotic episode getting through security and spelling out his full name in capital letters across the Midwest U.S. :chin:


That is probably of less likelihood than someone sabotaging and detonating the contents of a nuclear reactor, especially since "getting through security" means hacking through secure networks that would not be part of the "internet"

Actually, most of the proposals call for transmitting the energy in the microwave spectrum. The antenna used would be one such that the microwaves physically could not be focused into a lethal beam. In order for these satellites to be weaponized an entirely new transmitter would have to be launched and installed. A nation could do it. Terrorists probably couldn't.



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30 May 2012, 6:44 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Senath wrote:
I'm imagining someone in the midst of a psychotic episode getting through security and spelling out his full name in capital letters across the Midwest U.S. :chin:


That is probably of less likelihood than someone sabotaging and detonating the contents of a nuclear reactor, especially since "getting through security" means hacking through secure networks that would not be part of the "internet"

Actually, most of the proposals call for transmitting the energy in the microwave spectrum. The antenna used would be one such that the microwaves physically could not be focused into a lethal beam. In order for these satellites to be weaponized an entirely new transmitter would have to be launched and installed. A nation could do it. Terrorists probably couldn't.


Ah, the stuff that science fiction is made of!



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30 May 2012, 7:10 pm

Senath wrote:
Ah, the stuff that science fiction is made of!

There is a science fiction/thriller novel about exactly this situation: Powersat by Ben Bova.



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31 May 2012, 12:05 am

Beaten to it!

Good thing I didn't decide to go in to novel-writing; everyone would have beaten me to the punches...



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31 May 2012, 1:21 am

TM wrote:
Green energy is the future, however in the present green energy is overly expensive, less effective and quite frankly an eyesore for the most part. Nuclear power is the most sensible way to ween humanity off fossil fuels. There are plenty of mountains that can be built within where the plant going boom (which is extremely unlikely based on statistics, google is your friend.) and it produces quite a bit of energy at a low level of waste.

Solar plants in the middle of the desert, wind turbines at sea or large tundra areas makes sense, solar and wind fields in agricultural land in a world with a food shortage is like selling your TV to buy a DVD player.


Economically speaking and in the current situation you are probably correct.

However, when it comes to risks, I would take a couple of exploding wind turbines over a nuclear reactor meltdown any day of the week.


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31 May 2012, 5:55 am

The problem with green energy is that production of electricity is only a small part of the puzzle. The majority of the energy consumed worldwide comes from some form of fuel. If we create a source of green energy, we still have to find a way to economically store and transport this energy for use in cars, boats, planes, etc... Fossil fuels are pretty efficient compared to the cleaner, renewable fuels that we can currently produce.

Additionally, the areas where green energy production is most efficient are not the areas with the highest energy consumption. Solar panels you want to place in deserts, for example in the Sahara, for optimal production. Wind turbines are far more effective on the open sea rather than on land. But most of the consumption happens in areas with high population density that have relatively little sunshine.

Research is needed to come up with a fuel/battery that can be produced, transported and consumed efficiently and in a clean fashion.



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31 May 2012, 6:08 am

Quote:
Sumitomo developed a battery using a salt that is molten at 57 °C (135 °F) far lower than sodium based batteries. The battery offers energy densities as high as 290 Wh/L. The battery employs only nonflammable materials and will not ignite on contact with air, nor is there thermal runaway. This eliminates waste-heat storage or fire- and explosion-proof equipment, and allows closer packing of cells. The company expects that the battery requires half the volume of lithium-ion batteries and one quarter that of sodium-sulfur batteries.[13]


seems liquid salt is becoming more and more feasible, the ZEBRA battery (not the one described above) is already installd in cars but that battery required 2-3 days to melt if it ever solidifies and it operates at several hundred degrees.


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TM
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31 May 2012, 9:14 am

Kjas wrote:
TM wrote:
Green energy is the future, however in the present green energy is overly expensive, less effective and quite frankly an eyesore for the most part. Nuclear power is the most sensible way to ween humanity off fossil fuels. There are plenty of mountains that can be built within where the plant going boom (which is extremely unlikely based on statistics, google is your friend.) and it produces quite a bit of energy at a low level of waste.

Solar plants in the middle of the desert, wind turbines at sea or large tundra areas makes sense, solar and wind fields in agricultural land in a world with a food shortage is like selling your TV to buy a DVD player.


Economically speaking and in the current situation you are probably correct.

However, when it comes to risks, I would take a couple of exploding wind turbines over a nuclear reactor meltdown any day of the week.


I think most people would, however the fear of nuclear reactors melting down is a lot like fear of flying. Nobody is denying that reactors blow up and planes crash, however statistically you are more likely to electrocute yourself with a sex toy in the middle of Times Square than die on a plane or in a nuclear meltdown. With increased use of nuclear power, you'd also get more research and thus better and safer plants.



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31 May 2012, 9:32 am

Oodain wrote:
Quote:
Sumitomo developed a battery using a salt that is molten at 57 °C (135 °F) far lower than sodium based batteries. The battery offers energy densities as high as 290 Wh/L. The battery employs only nonflammable materials and will not ignite on contact with air, nor is there thermal runaway. This eliminates waste-heat storage or fire- and explosion-proof equipment, and allows closer packing of cells. The company expects that the battery requires half the volume of lithium-ion batteries and one quarter that of sodium-sulfur batteries.[13]


seems liquid salt is becoming more and more feasible, the ZEBRA battery (not the one described above) is already installd in cars but that battery required 2-3 days to melt if it ever solidifies and it operates at several hundred degrees.


Corrosion and growing hairs is still a problem

ruveyn



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31 May 2012, 10:39 am

even in the antimony magnesium based ones running at 57 degrees celcius?

as far as i gather the reactance problems would be far greater in "pure" sodium reactors running at upwards of a 1000 degrees celcius.

as for growing hairs, will read up on it as i truth be told hadnt heard about the problem till now.


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