Culturally acceptable child abuse?

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Agreed.
When I refer to a "child" I am generally talking about someone under the age of thirteen. The parenting of teenagers is a whole 'nother story.

oddly enough thats the period where the most harm can be done since the child has no chance to sort any of the information given there

There are also parents who refuse to vaccinate their children because they believe this causes autism. Clearly, as they believe they are acting in the child's best interests, there is no difference here either. Or what about the parents years ago who tried to "correct" their left handed children and teach them to be right handed? Then there's the wonderful situation in Northern Ireland, where children on both sides of the Catholic/Protestant divide grew up with the notion that the other lot should be opposed with threats, violence and even murder. Actually, that one's down to religion again... or politics, which is much the same thing.

Or nationalism.

Child abuse cannot, I suggest, be defined in the abstract. It can only be defined for a specific child in that child's specific circumstances. Every child is different, and there are precious few universal truths.

Parents DO have the right to do those things.
My own mother tried to make me right-handed, but I was more determined than she was.

Without reading the whole thread, ALL parents pass their values down to their children. To some degree, a variations of indoctrination can be necessary: teaching a child to have enough manners to get along in the world and hold a job, for example. Or teaching a child not to hit and verbally abuse others. Teaching a child to manage their anger.

While these may seem necessary life skills to most people, important to getting through life with some degree of happiness or ease, you have to understand parents with strong faith feel the same way about their faith as they do those common life skills: that not passing it on would be to deprive the child of a necessary tool or benefit.

A lot of terrible things have been done by people over the years in the guise of helping someone else achieve an important goal. That is a fault of the person trying to achieve the goal in the other person, and not necessarily a fault of the goal.

Abuse is born from internal pain, a need to force something onto someone else so that the abuser can release, for a moment, their internal emotions that they don't understand. There is no goal that can be accomplished lovingly by an abuser, not even one as basic as teaching a child to use a fork and knife.

But if a parent is truly wanting the best for the child, and the parent isn't overly nuts, it doesn't really matter what they are trying to teach. A loving parent could teach their child the world is flat and not do any significant harm. Kids are resilient against bad ideas that were delivered with good intent.

They are not resilient against good ideas delivered abusively.

.

On the contrary, I'd say a parent teaching their kids the earth is flat is beyond nuts, they are a fruit and nut cake! Do you really want your kids education to continue slipping in comparison to the rest of the world, particularly in the realms of science? America is earning itself quite a (bad) international reputation regarding science education and the increasing belligerence of your politicians towards science in general; seemingly because scientists dare to contradict the creationists! Anyway, it isn't my problem that America is continuing to fall behind the rest of the world in science, R&D, technology... and jobs. Besides, I'm sure the Russians will continue to bale you out with your space program and happily take your Chinese made technological cargo to the International Space Station.
Don't forget to drink the Kool-aid kids... We have your best wishes at heart and it will help you to see God.

Whether your first three examples are child abuse depend on the attitude and the child, IMO. Screaming at a sensitive, nervous kid that they're going to Hell for very little reason, or as a threat ("God wants you to respect and obey your elders, what if you go to Hell for not listening to me?") could very likely be child abuse. Reading the Bible to a kid almost certainly is not. It's just too subjective.

Sure they could claim that. People can claim whatever they want. But yes, I think so. I also think that there are shades of gray, and I think it becomes child abuse when the parents will do pretty much anything to stop their kid from rejecting that religion. Not that I don't think their intentions could still be good, but at that point I figure they're going to do more harm than good, both spiritually and mentally or physically, to the child.

Your argument moves beyond the child and what the child needs, into what is best for society and the world. On the later, I'll agree with you. But we were talking about the former, and when twisted ideas amount to child abuse.

On that, I've seen enough to stand by my statement. You can have happy, well adjusted kids raised with twisted ideas. Most will drop the ideas when they grown up and experiencing a broader world, some won't, but that isn't really the question: the question is the long term effects on the child's emotional health. The title of this thread isn't about the intellectual quality of a nation, bringing people to their intellectual potential, etc. It is about the line where ideas become child abuse.

Parents are not charged with bringing their kids to their fullest potential and maximum benefit to society: if that were true, pretty much all of us would have to feel we've failed woefully. The task of parenting is full of mistakes, because of one simple fact: parents are human. Certainly we hope to raise our kids to their maximum potential, but it can't be a requirement that draws the line between acceptable but flawed parenting and abusive parenting.

You posed a question about abusive parenting, but are arguing about best parenting, and the later is subjective based on our own unique world views.

PS - no one is actually teaching their kids the world is flat. That was an example pulled off a post on the first page of the thread.

all take out of that is that peoples own personal impressions and ideas arent worth jack before corroborated.

TallyMan, I see this as loosely related to our other conversation, only now you are in my shoes. Do you see it?

Sorry, you'll have to explain.

I wish I could...I just see a glimmer of something right now and cannot put my finger on exactly what it is that I am seeing. I was hoping perhaps that you would be able to see it if I suggested it. I'll let you know if I can find away to explain it.