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Jono
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21 Sep 2012, 6:24 am

Hopper wrote:
Good grief.

What. A. Tool.


When they stop rioting and murdering people over cartoons and fake trailers depicting their "prophet", then no one will have any reason to criticize them.



Tequila
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21 Sep 2012, 6:59 am

Jono wrote:
When they stop rioting and murdering people over cartoons and fake trailers depicting their "prophet", then no one will have any reason to criticize them.


Don't tell them about the Muhammad urinals, whatever you do.



Fnord
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21 Sep 2012, 9:48 am

JNathanK wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Some I made up, some I adapted from other "light bulb" jokes, and some I copied from other sources.
I think Muslims were just born into their religion like anyone else, so its unfair and its unnecessarily divisive to bash on them like this guy does.

Oh, so you're saying that Muslims should get a free ride in their violence against women, Americans, Jews, and anyone else who doesn't bow down five times each day to their neo-pagan god, just because they were "born into" it.

Are you a collaborator, as well?

Their Koran teaches violence. They practice violence, even against their own kind. They inflict violence and death upon innocent people for mere insults committed by others.

Remember this: Science flies you around the world. Islam flies you into buildings.

And you don't need to read a book of recitations that was written over 1300 years ago by a racist, woman-hating pedophile to tell you that.



Hopper
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21 Sep 2012, 10:24 am

'Islam is not a race'. Nothing is a race. Racism comes from racialising a group of people. You can point at the Koran and say 'Jeez, there's some f*****g awful stuff in here' - that's a strict criticism of a religious text, and in the appropriate time and place, I'll join you. But Mr Condell's (and other) huge brushstrokes method of attacking Muslims as though 'Muslim' is a monolith, and talking about 'The West' in a similar way is just so much maundering bollocks. I've read the transcript but daren't watch the video incase the image of Mr Condell's face as it would appear at orgasm as he tells his significant other 'yeah, swallow it, b***h' is forever burned on my retinas.

Again, you attack religion but support nationalism.



The biggest threat to 'our' way of life - to our lives, full stop - is Capitalism. You can deport all the Muslims you want - hell, all the immigrants you want - but you won't do away with homelessness and bad housing, lack of work, overwork, low pay, misogyny, families going without, surging inequality, run down public services and good old class antagonism. But you might find scapegoats harder to come by, and even end up one yourself.



Fnord
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21 Sep 2012, 10:52 am

Capitalism - the making of profit from one's own labor or the investment in the labors of others - is not a threat. It is the enslavement of others for the purpose of making that profit that is the real threat. Capitalism provides the incentive for progress. Lack of capitalistic incentive keeps people ignorant and lazy.

"But it isn't fair" is the call of a loser.



Hopper
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21 Sep 2012, 11:07 am

'But it isn't fair' is a moral judgement about the system as a whole.

The attempted 'enslavement' of others is inevitable in Capitalism, and is attained in a looser, tinged with metaphor sense, and sometimes a literal sense.

Capitalism does not provide the incentive for progress. Human curiosity and ingenuity does.



Fnord
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21 Sep 2012, 11:18 am

Hopper wrote:
'But it isn't fair' is a moral judgement about the system as a whole. The attempted 'enslavement' of others is inevitable in Capitalism, and is attained in a looser, tinged with metaphor sense, and sometimes a literal sense. Capitalism does not provide the incentive for progress. Human curiosity and ingenuity does.

Ingenuity provides the means, or method. ("We need a better vacuum pump; let's adapt a steam engine.")

Curiosity provides the opportunity ("Ooo ... what's this? What happens when I do that?").

Capitalism provides the motive ("What's in it for me?").

Without motivation for wealth, people will never rise above their basic needs.

Without capitalism, there is no trade, no innovation, and no progress.

The world made little or no progress until after the grip of religion on the feudal system was loosened, and the ability to acquire personal wealth became more readily available to all. It's a sad fact that most people seem content to remain ignorant and rely on their employers or the State to provide their needs for them.



Tequila
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21 Sep 2012, 11:37 am

Fnord wrote:
Without capitalism, there is no trade, no innovation, and no progress.


How do people think much of the Arab world is now so rich whilst simultaneously pumping out vicious anti-Western and anti-Semitic propaganda...?

Trade (for oil) has been the lifeline of Islamic countries in Arabia. They have little else worth exporting. It's made many people there impossibly rich beyond their wildest dreams.



Fnord
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21 Sep 2012, 11:46 am

Tequila wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Without capitalism, there is no trade, no innovation, and no progress.
How do people think much of the Arab world is now so rich whilst simultaneously pumping out vicious anti-Western and anti-Semitic propaganda...? Trade (for oil) has been the lifeline of Islamic countries in Arabia. They have little else worth exporting. It's made many people there impossibly rich beyond their wildest dreams.

Without their oil, the Arabs would be just another collection of Semitic peoples wandering the desert and praising their god every time their camels took a dump.



Tequila
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21 Sep 2012, 11:51 am

Fnord wrote:
Without their oil, the Arabs would be just another collection of Semitic peoples wandering the desert and praising their god every time their camels took a dump.


That's the thing - the greatest possible thing that could happen to the Arab world is massive secularisation, liberalisation and trade. They badly need to learn to get on with other people, that lots of people even within their borders find their worldview abhorrent but cannot say so under threat of death.

How many British tourists will want to go to Egypt now, I wonder? Not that the Salafi nutcases care, of course. Only the poor bastards suffering with no money will.

Death to the Infidel. Allahu Akbar. Allah will provide.



marshall
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21 Sep 2012, 3:31 pm

Fnord wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Should we ban free speech then?

Not at all. Just banish Nakoula Basseley Nakoula (or "Sam Bacile") for using satire to make a point. That way, his free speech rights will still be protected, but no one else will ever have to endure the trauma of having to learn what it means to have a sense of humour.

I don't understand why the media spread this guy's name. It's rumored that he has family in Egypt. 8O



Tequila
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21 Sep 2012, 3:33 pm

marshall wrote:
I don't understand why the media spread this guy's name. It's rumored that he has family in Egypt. 8O


Teach people a lesson, that's why. Criticise Islam and you'll be in fear for your life.

I'll be very surprised if his family don't get murdered soon. It's happened over far "less" in the extremists' eyes.



marshall
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21 Sep 2012, 3:59 pm

starryeyedvoyager wrote:
It is still a cultural problem, and this just shows how deeprooted it is. Some of my best friends are muslim, and they see this affair as I do. They do not like it in general when people make fun of other religions, but they think whoever made that video has every right to do so. The thing is, we are simply more aware of these things happening. There was a time when in the USA, folks were scared of foreign infiltration by Germans, and I am not talking about WWII, I am talking about 150 or so years ago. There is still a German Belt in the US, were many folks have german ancestry and still speak german. But do you see anyone in the US making a big fuzz about it anymore? Integration is a long and slow process. Do not get me wrong: I am not a fan of Islam. Of all religions out there, it ranks among the ones that is the least sympathetic to me, but it is a cultural problem nontheless. You can tell by the fact that the women wear burkhas, which is nowhere to be found in the Quran, but a cultural habit that came from... I think Morocco, that has just spread in islamic countries. Hey, we get nuns get away with it, and show me the part in the bible where it says: Nuns out to wear funny headgear that covers their hair.


A lot of the most backwards cultural elements in Islam are actually pre-Islamic customs. Muhammad did not invent most of it. He was simply a warrior who's goal was to unite various arab/semetic people under his brand of monotheism. The fundamentalism problem goes back to the decline of the Muslim empire which started with the crusades and concluded with the fall of the rise of European colonial powers and the fall of the Ottoman Empire. As typical of regressive conservative ideologies, Muslim clerics started irrational blaming "religious innovation" and "straying from the old culture" as the culprit for their decline in power. Prior to this Muslims were more forward looking in a relative sense.



legomyego
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21 Sep 2012, 4:01 pm

Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses. Women who allege rape, without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men who subsequently develop a conscience, are actually confessing to having sex. If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery.

What's the punishment for such crime? Stoned to death..(no not with weed)



thomas81
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21 Sep 2012, 4:04 pm

What concerns me more than islamic extremism is the commonality of language used by modern islamophobes and that of anti-semites 80 years ago.

As has been correctly said, Islam, is a genuine credible threat neither to myself or the indigenous population of Great Britain. However it makes a wonderful boogeyman for the right wing media and carpet baggers like Pat Condell to hurdle the masses against.



Last edited by thomas81 on 21 Sep 2012, 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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21 Sep 2012, 4:07 pm

legomyego wrote:
Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses. Women who allege rape, without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men who subsequently develop a conscience, are actually confessing to having sex. If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery. What's the punishment for such crime? Stoned to death.

I've heard fundie Christians (both men and women) state that: (1) If the woman is pregnant, then it wasn't rape; (2) Any woman who is raped has somehow asked for it; (3) Wives can not be raped by their husbands, since they gave consent in their marriage vows; and (4) Prostitutes can not be raped at all.

Religion -- PFEH! :x