Creep Shaming?

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that wasn't what i was asking him - i am not comparing "slut" to "creepy". i was asking him if there is a difference between when a man is called a slut vs. when a woman is called a slut, just like he said there is a gender difference for "creepy".

There's a difference in how the word is taken by the person to whom it is applied. With "creepy," on the other hand, there is a difference in what the speaker means by the word.

And I already know where you're going with this, so let me make a few other points.

First, I never said that labels shouldn't be applied to people, only that the person applying them should stop and think first about whether they really are applicable. Yes, some dudes earn the creep label fairly.

Second, there's an enormous difference between applying a label to people you hardly know, and applying that label to people you know well. You might notice that, aside from a very small number (3, all of whom I knew on a personal level), I do not use words like the ones you are referring to.

Third, there's a difference between someone who goes around labelling other people while acting as though they themselves are above those people, and someone who is willing to acknowledge his own contribution to the situation and give the same label to himself.

I've never heard of men being called "sluts". I thought that was a gender specific insult.

I've seen it applied to men plenty of times. They just don't seem to be as offended by it.

anyone who applies either label is doing it as a way to put down another person - that is the point. if they didn't consider themselves above them they wouldn't consider themselves arbiters of sluttiness or creepiness.

we can't really assume how accurately people are applying any label, though, because we are not present in their interactions. i have seen the "slut" label applied indiscriminately, without thought to whether it was accurate or how well the person's actual sexual history was known, just like you protest the creep label has been applied at times. we just don't know which times are correct and which ones are not.

but as Jono noted, "slut" is a gendered term. i was just pointing it out because you defended your use of the word "slut" on another thread by applying the label to yourself (a man) as well as to a woman, as though that would make it even. it does not. just like according to you if i called a man's behaviour creepy and also called myself creepy, it would not be an evenly applied label because of the gender difference.

i do agree people should think about how they use words like "creepy", definitely. but they should also think about how they use words like "slut".

I don't think "slut"should be used at all to be honest. I mean, since when is the number of sexual partners that someone else has had any of your business? At least "creep" can be appropriate at times.

To me, creepy is not the same as "rapey".
For example, the t.v. character Lurch is creepy but not rapey.
Also Edward Cullen - creepy, not rapey. Murdery, perhaps.

This conversation is making me laugh. The joy of adding "y" to cute-sify ugly words, perhaps. Or the mental image of Lurch having sex. Or maybe just some more inappropriate creepiness on my part.

yeah, i completely agree. i would not use it. i was just addressing the word as a comparison. i don't think i'd say "creepy" either, but i get what you are saying.

there's a difference between putting down other people, and putting yourself down with them. But I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on that.



sometimes we can't know how accurate it is but, in some cases, we can.

Someone uses the word slut to describe someone he doesn't know, clearly he's wrong. Someone uses it to describe, for example, a partner who cheated repeatedly, he's probably right.

Someone uses the word creepy to describe someone they've barely interacted with, probably they're wrong. Someone uses it to describe a guy who won't respect personal boundaries, won't take "no" for an answer, they're probably right.

I agree there's a grey area, where an outsider just can't tell whether the use of any particular word was fair or not. But the black and white areas surrounding that grey area are big enough that we can tell that yes, sometimes those words apply and yes, they are often used unfairly.



there is a difference in how the person takes the term "slut," not a difference in what is meant by it. It is even because it is applied evenly. If, when you described yourself as creepy, you meant "probable rapist" (which is usually what is meant when it is applied to a man) then yes, I'd think it was evenly applied.



i agree with you there. Any person using those words needs to show caution and restraint.


A better example than "slut" might be the word "b***h." that's a label that is applied to both genders, but with different meanings depending on the gender of the recipient.

When some of those sexual partners were had while that person was in a supposedly exclusive relationship with you.

Last edited by mds_02 on 30 Jan 2013, 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Awesome that that's not what you mean by it. But, going by past threads about this same subject, "rapey" does seem to be what most people mean by it.



i know, right? I just didn't know how else to put it.

we've established that it's not applied in the same way to both genders, though. so if you put yourself down with a label that is not even an insult to your gender, it's not the same as putting someone down if it is considered an insult to their gender. i sincerely doubt you were raised in a cultural vacuum where "slut" is a gender neutral term, so you must have known that it would not be the same when applied to a man vs. when applied to a woman - just like "creep".

i don't actually care if both terms aren't used anymore. it works quite well to describe people's behaviour without needing to insult them with labels.

Everything that you've said is based on the assumption that the person who makes the offensive remark knows that it is offensive.

You can tell a person that what s/he is saying is offensive and you should because if you don't there is always the chance that s/he might say something you find offensive without any intention of offending you.

You can't always say s/he ought have known.

If you say that a reasonable person would've expected the comment to be offensive you are discriminating against people on the Autistic spectrum. The law discriminates against people on the Autistic spectrum. It forces us to conform to the standard of NTs in order to avoid legal complications.

A person with AS can't always predict whether something will be taken offensively even if a NT can. A person with AS is still treated as if s/he is a NT and can make that judgement even though s/he actually can't.


The best thing you can do is tell someone a comment offends you. Then if the person makes the same comment a second time you can comfortably call the person a creep and retaliate in any way you want to without worrying about hurting an innocent person who simply doesn't know.

what is meant by 'creep' in this context? Its a loaded word.

are we talking specifically about sexual predators or men who fail to conform to gender stereotypes and general social norms? I see no problem with the latter.

For example the transwoman who was beaten up in a Mcdonalds for using the women's toilet. By right wing standards, some may consider this as crossing 'women's boundaries'.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMrLXl6VwBU[/youtube]

but we haven't established that. My whole argument is that it is applied in the exact same way, with the exact same meaning, to both genders. Only one gender seems to take less offense at it. Whereas creep, like certain other words, has different implications depending on which gender it is directed at.



The word is shorthand for "person who engages in a certain sort of behavior." I fail to see how I am putting myself above others if, when describing them in that way, I immediately point out that the description fit me as well.



Maybe this is a geographical thing. To both you and Jono, calling a man a slut seems almost unheard of. Here, I've very often heard women refer to men as man-sluts, man-whores etc., with the exact same meaning, and the exact same disdain, that a man would have when referring to women the same way. the only difference being that the men so labelled take less offense at it.



Fair enough. I think certain people earn the labels (and the insults that they imply), but your way would ensure that those who do not deserve them do not get them.

to be fair, men have almost no social ill-repute as a result of their sexual promiscuity.

If anything, its a badge of honour to all but the most conservative religious circles.