breeding of anencephalic humans for organ transplants

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Are you in favor or against the scheme?
Yes 61%  61%  [ 11 ]
No 39%  39%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 18

naturalplastic
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07 Feb 2013, 11:52 pm

As any redneck with cars on blocks in his backyard will tell -some parts are more needed than others- and get worn out faster than others. The car you drive will use up certain parts from your cinderblock car rapidly - and the rest will rust there.

So these creatures would have to have mulitple hearts, mulitple livers, but many (like you said) could be limbless.

So why not just grow livers in test tubes then?
Or grow them from lab animals? They already have bred lab rats with human ears on their backs.



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08 Feb 2013, 6:18 am

@Tensu

Explain what you understood, to make you think that we need a huge number of them at any given time? It's not going to be 200% of the population. Seriously now. You are at least 20 times off.

What you think of xenotransplants(from genetically engineered pigs)?

This is not like biofules. A car "eats" extremely fast more then a human in a year.
A beater comparison, is what cattle eats, and how fast it grows.

They will be less then 10% of the population at any given time. Virtually everybody bellow 30 doesn't need them. As people get old, there needs rise. Every human will not have one or two anencephalics assigned to them, from birth to death. They will have well bellow one. In an average lifetime, an average human will probably need a bit more then one complete set of organs. If the average human lives 100 years, he will need a little bit over one anencephalic in that entire period. While the human will be 100, the anencephalic would be around 5, or something close. You don't need to transplant organs from the same donor to the same receiver.
At 40 he might get a kidney. At 60 a heart. At 80 a liver and knew knees..... By 100 he has alzhimers ...
A single anencephalic distributes it's organs to a lot of different receivers, of different ages. They will never grow very old.

They will lack a brain. A lot will be limbless. A good deal of the time they will be small. And yes, if they grow rapidly, they eat more, but part of the extra they eat, is being added as body mass (if they eat a lot, they grow faster). They will be very inactive saving calories. They will never waste food, never get fat, never have pets, etc...
On average they will not eat more then an average human.
It's not going to be 1 to 1 with humans on food. Pets will be eating more then them.

If you have a lot of them(=1million for the whole EU for example), you can use computer programs, to beater manage the resource. Trying to prioritize there full cannibalization.
You don't wait the last minute that the patient is dieing. You make the transplantation in advance of near death.
You can retransplant them temporary in an other anencephalic. This way you can cannibalize them at a more deficient rate. When you have a donor today, they alredy try to cannibalize him, as much as possible.
You could make artificial twins, and latter make artificial siamese twins to "storage" organs.
You can put them in cold storage for a limited amount of time. That buys a bit more time, that some one will be found that needs it.
Everything together, and probably more, can be used to manage the resource at near 100% capacity.
We can be very creative.

Genetic weakening.
selective breeding: Genetically healthy, not inbreed, gradually improve the population. You're not going to mate them just at random. Add to that genetic engineering.

Hormones: The meat industry wants cattle that is meaty. They are going too far, they push the cells to there limits. We don't need this here. Hormones in food, has an effect over 30 years. We only need to reach the minimal size needed for a transplant in an adult.

Also, we can transplant many small organs in a patient. You take two baby kidneys instead of one adult. Depending on the organ, this will vary how well is done. With this the anencephalics will be more numerous, but they will also be a lot smaller, and with smaller idle time.

Limbless: I'm thinking on calling my daughter Amelia :P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetra-amelia

naturalplastic wrote:
So these creatures would have to have mulitple hearts, mulitple livers, but many (like you said) could be limbless.

So why not just grow livers in test tubes then?
Or grow them from lab animals? They already have bred lab rats with human ears on their backs.


A certain fraction of them will be with limbs. An other fraction limbless.
You could make artificial twins, and latter make, surgically artificial siamese twins, according to demand.

Test tubes: How? As it grows, the organ will need to be fed etc. You will not have the rest of the body. You'll need to do you're self what the rest of the body is doing. On top of of that, you need to organize you're self the cells in a functioning organ. You really think that you'll grow a whole liver in a night, with just the weight of the liver as consumed resources? And you need 10 Ph.ds to do these things. It's worse then my system.

for xenogrephs, you need to breed the pigs. You almost fall back to my system.
Genetically engineer this will not be easy. You'll inherit animal diseases. You need 10 Ph.ds again.
What do you do with the rest of the pig? You want to eat that? Pig limbs aren't very pretty on a human.

What makes you think, that the two alternatives will eat less resources?

P.S.
They put cartilage cell in a piece of plastic. They graphed that. The plastic got digested and replaced by cartilage.


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b9
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08 Feb 2013, 7:26 am

Quantum_Immortal wrote:
@b9

If you need to inject something, you just inject it. An endrocrinologist will know what to do. You put that in software. The quantity of hormones necessary is extremely small, you can just inject some standard cocktail in them.
standard cocktail?!? hormonal requirements for bodily functions and stasis of entity are continuously varying with respect to their environmental situations at any given moment. the functions of the endocrine system are governed by the feedback that the bodily systems indicate the state they are in. a "standard cocktail" that provides every hormonal requirement is impossible to concoct. as a body grows from childhood to adulthood, the "bio feedback" essential to trigger the responses of the endocrine system is in a constant state of change. even after the body reaches maturity, daily fluctuations of external and internal factors will dictate the "recipe" of the "cocktail".

you ignore the painfully complicated details of reality in favor of "saving face" and preventing your loss of "credibility" that would ensue from you conceding defeat.

i am not interested in addressing the rest of your post because i will not spend a similar amount of energy refuting your idea as you spend reinforcing it.

you need to give up because you are digging yourself deeper into your hole by refusing to surrender. i will not post anything more in this thread because it is now just a "black hole" of self preservation of your credibility.



visagrunt
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08 Feb 2013, 2:36 pm

Quantum_Immortal

I am going to say this as clearly, and succintly as possible:

Your ideas are the stuff of fantasy. The are entirely inconsistent with medical reality.

You do not know what you are talking about, and you have not the least idea of the practicalities of what you propose. You can't even appreciate the distinction between holoanencephaly and anencephaly, generally. You are in no position to present a scientific defence of your notions.

Go away, get a medical degree and a Ph.D. in embryology and then we can have an adult discussion.


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