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Is there anything to "Men's Rights" groups?

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hyperlexian
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22 Feb 2013, 12:32 pm

MCalavera wrote:
I'm proposing that this be addressed, but feminists seem to trivialize this and think it's silly. I think it's serious.

how are you proposing that it should be addressed? and what are your ideas to fix this?


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MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 12:35 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I'm proposing that this be addressed, but feminists seem to trivialize this and think it's silly. I think it's serious.

how are you proposing that it should be addressed? and what are your ideas to fix this?


Do you agree it needs to be addressed?



hyperlexian
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22 Feb 2013, 12:36 pm

MCalavera wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I'm proposing that this be addressed, but feminists seem to trivialize this and think it's silly. I think it's serious.

how are you proposing that it should be addressed? and what are your ideas to fix this?


Do you agree it needs to be addressed?

that was not an answer. i asked two questions.


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MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 12:37 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I'm proposing that this be addressed, but feminists seem to trivialize this and think it's silly. I think it's serious.

how are you proposing that it should be addressed? and what are your ideas to fix this?


Do you agree it needs to be addressed?

that was not an answer. i asked two questions.


Ok, and I'm asking you a question in response.

What are you fishing for exactly? You don't really care about the details, do you?



mercifullyfree
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22 Feb 2013, 12:40 pm

Women can get real sexually frustrated too. That's why we got all our vibrators, dirty books, and bad fanfiction. It's how we deal with it when the real thing isn't working for whatever reason. Maybe those who trivialize men's frustration assume it should be taken care of the same way. :P



XFilesGeek
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22 Feb 2013, 12:41 pm

MCalavera wrote:
I don't believe you did. It doesn't show in your strawman. It's nice to dodge strawmen, though. So I'll keep at it.


In other words, you have zero empathy for my personal unhappiness.

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Why are you so intent on having me convince society of my plight (whatever it is)? Do you want to have sex with me or something? I don't personally have a need to get laid anyway. Quit with the strawmen now and argue my points exactly as I'm arguing them. You can't go far if you're just going to build more strawmen to counter.


If you want "society" to act in order to make getting sex "easier," then you had better come up with a way to convince them.

Why should "society" institute measures to make sex "easier" to get for anybody?

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And my point is that I'm not unhappy with the way things are for me personally. I'm actually quite satisfied with what I've done so far. But this doesn't mean that things can't be better for me and for everyone else within society.


See above.

Quote:
Uh uh, no more strawmen please. You are so fixated with the sex thing, aren't you? What about the love and all that? Is sex (and money) the only thing on your mind when arguing with me? Gee, that sounds like a good idea for prostitution.


See above. Why should "society" make it easier for individuals to obtain sex?

Quote:
They are not as easily available as you're arguing. Take the USA for example. Prostitution is illegal in at least some of the states. Correct me if I'm mistaken. So what's the way to go about it if one is an American and is lacking sex and desires it. Money is much easier to obtain. Just because you crave more money doesn't mean you lack money.


There are plenty of avenues available to get sex. They just don't suit you.

Why is the onus on "society" to provide you with "easier" methods to get sex?

Quote:
But regardless of whether you have a better idea or not, you still have access to money. And I'm sure you have more than 1000$ in your banking account, you greedy you. :lol:


And you have access to sex.

You may not like your options, but they exist never the less.


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22 Feb 2013, 12:43 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I'm proposing that this be addressed, but feminists seem to trivialize this and think it's silly. I think it's serious.

how are you proposing that it should be addressed? and what are your ideas to fix this?


As he already told, he thinks that accepted prostitution would help. So in my country its accepted, but it doesnt help people that much, because legal prostitutes you can afford with a normal job every 1-2 months, so they are about 100 EUR/hour.

As he was also already told, I didnt triviliaze someones not being happy, but other solutions that end with someone being much more unhappy I dont know. Why talking about facts is trivializing, nobody knows.

Remains the idea of teaching to flirt in schools. A thing that is in my country also existing in some form, so when you visit classical dance school (Walzer, Tango, ...) its not only about dancing, but also about the classical social correct behavior. But noone uses this behavior outside from weddings or opera festivities and so on. And the typical behavings, that is acutal known, is nothing that should be told to anyone, my oppinion I already wrote.

So there is till no solution, but because of not creating an solution out of the ass, it is trivializing. I hope people dont mind, if I trivialize pancreas cancer, because for this I also have found no solution, so its my and all feminists fault that these people has to suffer.



MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 12:43 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:
Women can get real sexually frustrated too. That's why we got all our vibrators, dirty books, and bad fanfiction. It's how we deal with it when the real thing isn't working for whatever reason. Maybe those who trivialize men's frustration assume it should be taken care of the same way. :P


Ok, but anecdotal evidence suggests that it's easier for women in general to get laid than it is for men.

Plus, why was the part about dating and relationships skipped and all focus was on the sex bit? Isn't that subject also worth debating? Or do we all agree (aside from Schnee) that there should be a subject taught at school to do with dating and relationships?



MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 12:46 pm

Schneekugel wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I'm proposing that this be addressed, but feminists seem to trivialize this and think it's silly. I think it's serious.

how are you proposing that it should be addressed? and what are your ideas to fix this?


As he already told, he thinks that accepted prostitution would help. So in my country its accepted, but it doesnt help people that much, because legal prostitutes you can afford with a normal job every 1-2 months, so they are about 100 EUR/hour.

As he was also already told, I didnt triviliaze someones not being happy, but other solutions that end with someone being much more unhappy I dont know. Why talking about facts is trivializing, nobody knows.

Remains the idea of teaching to flirt in schools. A thing that is in my country also existing in some form, so when you visit classical dance school (Walzer, Tango, ...) its not only about dancing, but also about the classical social correct behavior. But noone uses this behavior outside from weddings or opera festivities and so on. And the typical behavings, that is acutal known, is nothing that should be told to anyone, my oppinion I already wrote.

So there is till no solution, but because of not creating an solution out of the ass, it is trivializing. I hope people dont mind, if I trivialize pancreas cancer, because for this I also have found no solution, so its my and all feminists fault that these people has to suffer.


I never blamed feminism for these issues. Nor do I expect feminism to resolve this as after all feminism is purely about women's rights to ... uh, what exactly do feminists fight for again?



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22 Feb 2013, 12:49 pm

Schneekugel wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I'm proposing that this be addressed, but feminists seem to trivialize this and think it's silly. I think it's serious.

how are you proposing that it should be addressed? and what are your ideas to fix this?


As he already told, he thinks that accepted prostitution would help. So in my country its accepted, but it doesnt help people that much, because legal prostitutes you can afford with a normal job every 1-2 months, so they are about 100 EUR/hour.

As he was also already told, I didnt triviliaze someones not being happy, but other solutions that end with someone being much more unhappy I dont know. Why talking about facts is trivializing, nobody knows.

Remains the idea of teaching to flirt in schools. A thing that is in my country also existing in some form, so when you visit classical dance school (Walzer, Tango, ...) its not only about dancing, but also about the classical social correct behavior. But noone uses this behavior outside from weddings or opera festivities and so on. And the typical behavings, that is acutal known, is nothing that should be told to anyone, my oppinion I already wrote.

So there is till no solution, but because of not creating an solution out of the ass, it is trivializing. I hope people dont mind, if I trivialize pancreas cancer, because for this I also have found no solution, so its my and all feminists fault that these people has to suffer.


And, apparently, it's society's fault for not making life easier on "unhappy" people.


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MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 12:51 pm

Yeah, I'm sure women's rights to be treated with respect within a society that already treats them with respect is a much more serious issue to be concerned about.

Silly me to think that society should care to fix certain issues that I thought were just as serious (if not more).



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22 Feb 2013, 1:00 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Ok, but anecdotal evidence suggests that it's easier for women in general to get laid than it is for men.


I think the trick for anyone to get laid is to lower your standards. Works for men and women. The frustration is caused when what you can get with those lower standards doesn't satisfy. A woman might be able to sex from that desperate looking whatshisface at the bar, but that doesn't mean it'll be sexually fulfilling for her. She might still be left frustrated by the experience and a vibrator may well work better.

Quote:
Plus, why was the part about dating and relationships skipped and all focus was on the sex bit? Isn't that subject also worth debating? Or do we all agree (aside from Schnee) that there should be a subject taught at school to do with dating and relationships?


Dating and relationships are hard for any gender and can be too complicated. I am not opposed to the idea of the stuff being taught in theory, but in practice I would be wary how it's taught and who's teaching it. Would LGBT people be addressed and represented? If so, are evangelicals going throw a fit about it and demand to control the subject? It's just damn complicated and the sex question is a lot more easy to figure out.



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22 Feb 2013, 1:05 pm

MCalavera wrote:
I never blamed feminism for these issues. Nor do I expect feminism to resolve this as after all feminism is purely about women's rights to ... uh, what exactly do feminists fight for again?


Depends on country. In America, abortion rights and such are still very shaky because of the religious population. There is also the need to just stay vigilant so we don't backslide. Feminists in Afghanistan obviously have a lot more work to do.



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22 Feb 2013, 1:08 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:
Quote:
Plus, why was the part about dating and relationships skipped and all focus was on the sex bit? Isn't that subject also worth debating? Or do we all agree (aside from Schnee) that there should be a subject taught at school to do with dating and relationships?


Dating and relationships are hard for any gender and can be too complicated. I am not opposed to the idea of the stuff being taught in theory, but in practice I would be wary how it's taught and who's teaching it. Would LGBT people be addressed and represented? If so, are evangelicals going throw a fit about it and demand to control the subject? It's just damn complicated and the sex question is a lot more easy to figure out.


Every good idea starts with it being a good idea theoretically. Theoretically, it's a good idea to teach and encourage to teach evolution in all schools even if practically it is difficult to do so with all the oppositions that go on.



MCalavera
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22 Feb 2013, 1:09 pm

mercifullyfree wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I never blamed feminism for these issues. Nor do I expect feminism to resolve this as after all feminism is purely about women's rights to ... uh, what exactly do feminists fight for again?


Depends on country. In America, abortion rights and such are still very shaky because of the religious population. There is also the need to just stay vigilant so we don't backslide. Feminists in Afghanistan obviously have a lot more work to do.


I agree about Afghanistan. That's a fight I support feminists to fight.



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22 Feb 2013, 2:32 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
"Society" is comprised of individuals. If you want "society" to work together to fix your inability to get laid, you had best start considering how to convince "individuals" to care about your plight.


But in the very next sentence you say

Quote:
My point is that you're no more qualified to determine what what society's "job" should be in relation to your personal unhappiness than I am.


If that is the case, then how does he convince individuals to care about his plight?