Page 4 of 11 [ 163 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 11  Next

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,804
Location: Stendec

08 Jun 2013, 5:54 pm

I've never met a conspiricist who could provide a solution to the "problem" they presented.

Instead, they all seemed to enjoy inspiring fear and anger in others.

"Conspiricists" are a subspecies of "Troll".



wiliamson
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 23

10 Jun 2013, 6:06 am

In response to zerOnetgain's comment about criminals et al framing perceptions to dupe people, have you considered the idea of gaslighting - the technique of acting in a bizarre way but only to one individual. When that individual recounts the behaviour, he is the one who looks crazy. It is a staple of domestic abuse and managerial bullying. It comes from the original film "Gaslight" 1944, where a husband treats his wife in this way to make out she is crazy so he can steal her inheritance. These days would she be able to complain or would she find she was the one being accused of slander? And this ties in with criminals faking evidence/events to point the finger of blame onto someone else.



zer0netgain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,613

10 Jun 2013, 7:39 am

The_Walrus wrote:
People would notice these "eliminations".


Lots of ways to die that don't flag suspicion, and I doubt the parties involved had any "life insurance" to make sure their deeds were exposed to the world if anything happened to them. Trust me, there's a lot of ways to take a person out and NOBODY OF IMPORTANCE will care.

The_Walrus wrote:
Source?


Do your own research. This came out years ago. I'm not digging for an article probably 5 years or older.

The_Walrus wrote:
WTC 7 wasn't demolished.


Yes it was. Silverstien admitted to it in the media.

The_Walrus wrote:
The burden of proof is on you. Show what is wrong with the "government's story".


This has been done ad nauseum. That you are unaware means you either care not to look into it yourself or you have heard of it and chose to ignore it.

Question, does not the government has the burden of proof to establish that it is telling the truth? Has it met it's burden? Has not it's claims been successfully shown as inherently flawed if not false on many avenues?



glider18
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,062
Location: USA

03 Oct 2013, 8:13 pm

I have researched the JFK assassination countless times in the past and have become exhausted with its maddening research. It gets to the point where every theory concerning it seems plausible. I can believe that both Oswald acted alone and that he did not act alone at the same time. So...I decided to get back into the research when a magazine was released about the upcoming 50th anniversary of the assassination telling about Roger Stone's new book placing the blame on LBJ. Hmmm...I have heard that theory before. And it seems to make sense that LBJ could have been behind it. But it also makes sense the mob was behind it, and that Castro was behind it...and this one and that one. Gee, no wonder it gets so exhausting. Even if the truth came out (if the truth deviates from the Warren Commission on Oswald acting alone) then we will probably have trouble believing that that is exactly the truth. So...I decided to go back to square one today. I picked up an old book on my book shelf entitled The Death of a President by William Manchester published in 1967 based on the most intense and vastly accurate research he could seemingly get. It was a bestseller in its day and can still be bought. Manchester is of the belief that Oswald acted alone. But...there has been a lot of research conducted since 1967. And if the Kennedy assassination wasn't a conspiracy, then isn't this strange from our own government:

United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA): The HSCA was established in 1976 to investigate the John F. Kennedy assassination and the Martin Luther King, Jr. assassination. The Committee investigated until 1978, and in 1979 issued its final report, concluding that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated by a conspiracy involving the mob, and potentially the CIA. The House Select Committee on Assassinations undertook reinvestigations of the murders of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr. In 1979, a single Report and twelve volumes of appendices on each assassination were published by the Congress. In the JFK case, the HSCA found that there was a “probable conspiracy,” though it was unable to determine the nature of that conspiracy or its other participants (besides Oswald). This finding was based in part on acoustics evidence from a tape purported to record the shots, but was also based on other evidence including an investigation of Ruby’s mafia connections and potential CIA and/or FBI connections to Oswald. To this day, many conspiracy deniers are unaware that the Congressional investigation into JFK’s assassination concluded beyond any shadow of a doubt that it was a conspiracy. What made them come to this conclusion? Aside from reading the report, many witnesses (some of whom were CIA agents and station chiefs in Dallas that morning) were killed the night before testifying. For example, George de Mohrenschildt was a petroleum geologist who befriended Lee Harvey Oswald during the months preceding the assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy. He also worked for the CIA. He also blew his brains out the night before he was to testify to the committee. The committee also uncovered, among many things, that Oswald left the marines where he learned how to speak fluent Russian (at the height of the cold war). He was given money by the State Department to travel to Russia where he stopped off in Japan at a top secret US Military facility. The Warren Commission even mentioned this part. What most people do not know is that he probably was working in the Cold War infiltrating the Russians as either a “dangle,” “double agent,” or “defector” of some kind. What is interesting is that upon his return he got more money from the State Department to buy a house and work with an ex FBI Chief and CIA officials in training anti-Castro Cubans for an invasion. In Louisiana, where he was working, the CIA was involved in Operation Mongoose, Where Oswald worked under CIA Agent David Ferrie, who killed himself before testifying in a trial on the Assassination as well. Operation Mongoose worked closely with Southern Mafia figures largely because the casinos in Cuba, which were shut down after Fidel obtained control over the country, were epicenters for control on the island. The CIA even hired the mafia to assassinate Fidel on many occasions, 3 attempts which failed are common knowledge. What is funny is that figures who worked very close with Oswald either ended up dead (over 100 of them connected to the assassination died within a few years of unusual circumstances) or they ended up in other conspiracies.
For instance, E Howard Hunt (CIA Agent) confessed to being involved in the conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy on his deathbed. E Howard Hunt was one of the Watergate Burglars. Barry Seal, who worked with Oswald and Ferrie ended up being one of the largest cocaine smugglers in the United States during Iran Contra, as a key player for the agency and informant for the DEA. There is so much more to get into, but there just isn’t enough time. Oswald’s tax returns are still classified top secret to this day. Why? Perhaps he was still getting $$ from the United States, which places him on the payroll. That money trail leads to figures, many of whom were murdered, that would have blown the story wide open. For 14 years, most didn’t know this. The HSCA investigaitons by congress went against the findings of the Warren Commission and both reports are from the same source, Congressional Committees. Which is true? Why do we only teach one to our children in school?
December 30, 1978 Report on HSCA Findings


Conspiracies do happen. And Lincoln's assassination was part of a conspiracy. So it's not out of the question that Kennedy was assassinated as part of a conspiracy. But I am not going to state my conclusion until I have sifted through my latest research on Kennedy. But although there were people who wanted Kennedy out of the way, would they kill him?

If Lincoln was a conspiracy, and there are theories that Kennedy was a conspiracy, then what about the other two presidential assassinations? McKinley? I don't know, I haven't done much research on that one. How about Garfield? Hmmmmmm.

James Garfield's assassination (which was unknowingly helped along by ill-trained doctors who infected the president) was committed by Charles Guiteau who was known to be a "mad" man who had stalked Garfield. After shooting the president, he declared that the Stalwarts (a faction of the Republican Party that Garfield was not a part of) were in power now---"Arthur is president now" (Vice President Chester Arthur was a Stalwart). And, after becoming the president, many of Garfield's cabinet members resigned and Arthur replaced most of them with Stalwarts. Interesting...Garfield was a "half-breed" Republican (moderate Republican) while Arthur was a Stalwart (political machine type Republican). The two groups of Republicans didn't like one another. So essentially, the President and Vice President belonged to two different groups of Republicans who were political enemies. A conspiracy theory could be made that Arthur arranged to have Garfield assassinated in order to put Stalwarts in power. But have you ever seen a conspiracy theory on that? Probably not, because Guiteau was thought of as mad anyway, and therefore he acted alone. Or did he? Personally, I don't believe Arthur had Garfield killed, but I am surprised that there haven't been theories abounding on this.

But with Kennedy...there are all kinds of conspiracy theories. Why? Why not let it drop? For one thing, it is like a game of Clue of whodunnit. And it can be fun to try to come to reasonable conclusions on this case---because so many of the theories make sense. So many had motives. There are a lot of unanswered questions and seemingly contradictory elements to it like autopsy photos that don't match doctors' descriptions of the autopsy. And it's challenging and interesting to try to think of complicated plots to how this could have been pulled off. And the house committee in the '70s even leaned toward a conspiracy versus the Warren Report findings. And in the '60s, there was a lot of mistrust. And as the decade wore on, and into the '70s, many people mistrusted the government more and more. So it was easy to believe a conspiracy or two. And you know what, many former conspiracy theories have been proven true---around the world both recently and in centuries past. Although Oswald may indeed have acted alone, it wouldn't be far-fetched if it were actually a conspiracy involving top names surrounding Kennedy.


_________________
"My journey has just begun."


TeaEarlGreyHot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jul 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 28,982
Location: California

03 Oct 2013, 9:31 pm

I'd believe one of my hallucinations before I'd believe any of the conspiracy theories I've come across... :lol:


_________________
Still looking for that blue jean baby queen, prettiest girl I've ever seen.


SwampOwl
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jul 2013
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 330
Location: The Black Swamp

04 Oct 2013, 12:30 am

Conspiracy theories are just that, Theories.
I would rather believe that something was possible, than to totally disbelieve it and be caught with my pants down.

I don't believe them all, but I keep it tucked away in the back of my mind. If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready.



MCalavera
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,442

04 Oct 2013, 12:35 am

SwampOwl wrote:
Conspiracy theories are just that, Theories.
I would rather believe that something was possible, than to totally disbelieve it and be caught with my pants down.

I don't believe them all, but I keep it tucked away in the back of my mind. If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready.


They're not even theories (in the scientific sense). They're just products of a wild imagination.



SwampOwl
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jul 2013
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 330
Location: The Black Swamp

04 Oct 2013, 12:44 am

Either way. I find them interesting. Even though some make more sense than others, I don't take anything as absolute truth. But anything is possible in this crazy world.



MCalavera
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,442

04 Oct 2013, 1:03 am

It's also possible for pigs to fly as well, provided they're given the needed equipment to do so or the laws of nature get distortedi n a way as to allow pigs to all of a sudden be able to fly.

Also, just because you see the world as crazy doesn't mean therefore there's a probability to any of these grand extraordinary conspiracies.



simon_says
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,075

04 Oct 2013, 2:04 am

I read a few conspiracy books on Kennedy decades ago. One of them also dipped into MLK and RFK. What those events, and 911, have in common is that if you put any given day under a microscope you can find a lot of coincidence, happenstance or just strange things going on. Because that happens every day if you look for it. We just don't pay attention.

Today at 3:34 a man named George Dinkus dropped dead of a heart attack in NYC. George D. was a known collector of Nazi war memorabilia. At 6 pm the brother of famed Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal boarded a flight from JFK to Paris. Also on that same day the visiting CIA station chief from Brazil had a cheeseburger within 2 miles of George's apartment. Well, yeah, it's NYC. It's a big place. That's how these things get constructed. All skeleton and no cartilage.



TeaEarlGreyHot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jul 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 28,982
Location: California

04 Oct 2013, 2:13 am

SwampOwl wrote:
Conspiracy theories are just that, Theories.
I would rather believe that something was possible, than to totally disbelieve it and be caught with my pants down.

I don't believe them all, but I keep it tucked away in the back of my mind. If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready.


I've been caught in worse positions. They make good stories.


_________________
Still looking for that blue jean baby queen, prettiest girl I've ever seen.


MCalavera
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,442

04 Oct 2013, 2:22 am

simon_says wrote:
I read a few conspiracy books on Kennedy decades ago. One of them also dipped into MLK and RFK. What those events, and 911, have in common is that if you put any given day under a microscope you can find a lot of coincidence, happenstance or just strange things going on. Because that happens every day if you look for it. We just don't pay attention.

Today at 3:34 a man named George Dinkus dropped dead of a heart attack in NYC. George D. was a known collector of Nazi war memorabilia. At 6 pm the brother of famed Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal boarded a flight from JFK to Paris. Also on that same day the visiting CIA station chief from Brazil had a cheeseburger within 2 miles of George's apartment. Well, yeah, it's NYC. It's a big place. That's how these things get constructed. All skeleton and no cartilage.


Yep, something to do with selective attention and confirmation bias: a common topic in psychology.

Ignore all the evidence that shows crimes happen on nights when there isn't a full moon, and you'd think that crimes only happen when there is a full moon.



glider18
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,062
Location: USA

04 Oct 2013, 5:31 am

One thing that makes conspiracy stuff fun to research is that some actually turn out to be true. But then the fun is taken away.


_________________
"My journey has just begun."


Nambo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,882
Location: Prussia

04 Oct 2013, 6:06 pm

Re JFK, the visual evidence of the bodyguards being removed just before the assassination, says it all for me.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8[/youtube]



redriverronin
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 23 Dec 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 267

04 Oct 2013, 10:43 pm

Funny how its always the same people on this site that attack anyone who doesn't have a very specific train of thought with the most childish tactics.



Nambo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,882
Location: Prussia

05 Oct 2013, 3:44 am

redriverronin wrote:
Funny how its always the same people on this site that attack anyone who doesn't have a very specific train of thought with the most childish tactics.


Unfortunately for them, the visible facts, logic, and the use of critical thinking all work against their increasingly desperate attempts to protect the guilty, the use of childish tactics and insults demonstrates to me that they have to resort to such in lieu of a valid counter-argument, and therefore is an admission that the "conspiracy theorists" are actually right.

Even the likes of the BBC have to resort to such.

As the "Conspiracy theories" unfold and we see a worsening economy and subsequent rise in the level of a Police State, these will be the people who will report you to the Stasi for your use of independent and critical thinking.