Politically correct people stay out of my threads

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snake321
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18 Feb 2007, 6:51 pm

Well what I'm hearing you say (please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you) is that one should use pc as a lie to fish stupid people in (like lets say for a campaign) and then once you've got their support, toss the pc crap aside and reveal to the idiots that you've lied to them. This may work, had it not been for the fact that if you come forward with lies, people will react, possibly violently.
Making people learn to get along and being able to call shots down the middle isn't political correctness, our culture thrives on ignorance, selfishness, greed, consumerism, and hostility, and above all, a lust for power and dominance. Making people evolve beyond that isn't totalitarian, it's merely standing up for what is right, and what is beneficial to our species. The absolute truth seems out of reach to most people, however, a large part of this is also due to propaganda fuelling the negative aspects of human geneticism. Nothing logically gives another human being the "god given right" to oppress or cause suffering to others whom are innocent. Right and wrong is absolute terms is that simple. People need to be guided, or possibly even put into think tanks, to aquire universal mentality. Once they've gained it they will be free for they will have answers that have eluded man for many eons. Then people can be able to live in peace, freedom (with responsible boundaries), equality, prosperity, and knowledge. Further people could work towards a better society, where people look out for eachother rather than looking out for themselves and oppressing one another. The answer to equality isn't political correctness, it's balance. It's finding that middle road. It's moving beyond social labels (except where one is actively discriminated for a biological, and hince, unavoidable difference, such as race, gender, or even nuero-diversity).



snake321
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18 Feb 2007, 6:53 pm

headphase wrote:
OA_ wrote:
snake321 wrote:
If someone has a problem with facts, that's their problem. I don't run and hide from the truth. Truth=progress, skirting issues=coward.


Isn't there 3 types of 'truth'?

1. Yours,
2. Mine, and
3. The one in the middle(free from personal bias)?

Whose 'truth' should the 'truth' be based upon? Who decides? Does any truth have more validity than another? :-)

Political Correctness seemed to me, initially, to be a great way to try and help all people feel more at ease, by endeavoring to rid the workplace and society from ignorance & bigotry. How well it has worked is another matter, and sometimes I think these days it can be more harmful than helpful if words are not spoken, and only thought.
There is a way to state things with tact though, to get your points and views across without the need to belittle others - or so I'd like to believe.

Cheers ;-)

The unbiased one isn't always in the middle.


This is just blindly defending tribalism, this statement holds no water. You WANT to always be right, you WANT liberalism to always be right because you've attached yourself to that label.



snake321
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18 Feb 2007, 6:54 pm

I mean if someone makes a decision biasely, theyr obviously not calling things down the middle. There is NO logic in that assumption at all.



AlexandertheSolitary
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18 Feb 2007, 9:21 pm

But in banning "politically correct" types (please be more precise) you will be avoiding certain forms of conflict, snake321. Oh, other forms of conflict will run riot, but the exclusion of a group who are not even the worst of the various categories of human being on this planet does not appear to me to be particularly rational.


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18 Feb 2007, 9:24 pm

snake321 wrote:
For your info, no I don't hold the truth back to avoid conflict...
If someone has a problem with facts, that's their problem. I don't run and hide from the truth. Truth=progress, skirting issues=coward.


Define "facts" and "truth".


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snake321
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18 Feb 2007, 9:41 pm

It really shouldn't be as hard of a concept to grasp as people make it. Truth is balancing logic and emotion in a progressive way. Balance. Truth is working towards equality, freedom balanced out with responsibility, unbias, a society without sentient suffering, working towards making a balanced, utopian society possible. Truth isn't in tribalistic behavior, one can only find it in complete individuality and a deep passion for discovering the truth (although it came to me like common since almost once I reached an age of maturity). Truth is working together rather than against one another. The absolute in right and wrong is as simple as "are my actions hurting an innocent sentient being for reasons other than immediate self preservation?" Don't try to be dominant, aim for equality instead.
If people are throwing the truth out and following lies then society will never progress. The answer is in balance. I think alot of western society could learn things from the east.



snake321
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18 Feb 2007, 9:47 pm

And of coarse it would be avoiding certain types of conflict. My aim isn't to create conflict, but I won't back down from it either. My goal is to advance the unbias truth.



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18 Feb 2007, 10:04 pm

snake321 wrote:
It really shouldn't be as hard of a concept to grasp as people make it. Truth is balancing logic and emotion in a progressive way. Balance. Truth is working towards equality, freedom balanced out with responsibility, unbias, a society without sentient suffering, working towards making a balanced, utopian society possible. Truth isn't in tribalistic behavior, one can only find it in complete individuality and a deep passion for discovering the truth (although it came to me like common since almost once I reached an age of maturity). Truth is working together rather than against one another. The absolute in right and wrong is as simple as "are my actions hurting an innocent sentient being for reasons other than immediate self preservation?" Don't try to be dominant, aim for equality instead.
If people are throwing the truth out and following lies then society will never progress. The answer is in balance. I think alot of western society could learn things from the east.

I disagree. Emotion has no relationship to truth as it has no proper epistemic link, my emotions could clash with that of my fellow man on any number of topics. Because truth is universal by its nature, this means that emotions cannot have a proper linking to truth. Truth has nothing to do with equality, freedom, cessation of suffering, utopianism, tribalism, or anything of that nature. One can argue that certain tendencies strengthen an ability to be objective thing but truth by its nature is a deaf and dumb thing without feeling and without soul, the truth is data and data never pushes for or against anything. You can claim that there is some moral truth telling you these things but you cannot prove it, you claim it is self-evident but self-evidence cannot be claimed considering that different thoughts and beliefs call out for different things.

Western society progressed though and eastern society stagnated and that is likely because of Western imbalances. In fact, I would argue that because a natural state of rest will have balance, in order to have improvement some disruption is necessary.
Quote:
And of coarse it would be avoiding certain types of conflict. My aim isn't to create conflict, but I won't back down from it either. My goal is to advance the unbias truth.
You do recognize that your "truth" has bias in it, at least I have noticed some good amount of bias in your thoughts.



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18 Feb 2007, 10:07 pm

Meanwhile, seven dwarfs in SS uniforms march by, singing "Heil Ho".


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18 Feb 2007, 10:08 pm

snake321 wrote:
It really shouldn't be as hard of a concept to grasp as people make it. Truth is balancing logic and emotion in a progressive way. Balance. Truth is working towards equality, freedom balanced out with responsibility, unbias, a society without sentient suffering, working towards making a balanced, utopian society possible. Truth isn't in tribalistic behavior, one can only find it in complete individuality and a deep passion for discovering the truth (although it came to me like common since almost once I reached an age of maturity). Truth is working together rather than against one another. The absolute in right and wrong is as simple as "are my actions hurting an innocent sentient being for reasons other than immediate self preservation?" Don't try to be dominant, aim for equality instead.
If people are throwing the truth out and following lies then society will never progress. The answer is in balance. I think alot of western society could learn things from the east.


I agree with much of this, but all this is fascilitated by banning political correctness from your threads HOW, exactly? As I said you have some good principles above. I just do not see the consistency with the aforesaid principles of excluding a group of sentient beings from your threads. And excluding them for an alleged, possibly actual, lack of tolerance for dissent seems particularly hypocritical. (You can now hardly accuse me of being unwilling to risk controversy!)


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AlexandertheSolitary
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18 Feb 2007, 10:16 pm

quote]Western society progressed though and eastern society stagnated and that is likely because of Western imbalances. In fact, I would argue that because a natural state of rest will have balance, in order to have improvement some disruption is necessary.
[And of course it would be avoiding certain types of conflict. My aim isn't to create conflict, but I won't back down from it either. My goal is to advance the unbias truth.[/quote] You do recognize that your "truth" has bias in it, at least I have noticed some good amount of bias in your thoughts.[/quote]

Open to question. In which periods was progress only in the West? For most of history the balance has been the other way. Conversely, in claiming the West to be inherently more unbalanced than the east, this negative claim about the west has no more basis than the positive statement that preceded it. Humanity is unbalanced. Whether this is linked to progress (though quite possibly you are right about this aspect at least) cannot be confirmed without a control "humanity" with perfect balance, whatever this might consist of, and seeing whether this led to a similar degree of progress or not.


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18 Feb 2007, 10:23 pm

snake321 wrote:
Well what I'm hearing you say (please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you) is that one should use pc as a lie to fish stupid people in (like lets say for a campaign) and then once you've got their support, toss the pc crap aside and reveal to the idiots that you've lied to them. This may work, had it not been for the fact that if you come forward with lies, people will react, possibly violently.
Making people learn to get along and being able to call shots down the middle isn't political correctness, our culture thrives on ignorance, selfishness, greed, consumerism, and hostility, and above all, a lust for power and dominance. Making people evolve beyond that isn't totalitarian, it's merely standing up for what is right, and what is beneficial to our species. The absolute truth seems out of reach to most people, however, a large part of this is also due to propaganda fuelling the negative aspects of human geneticism. Nothing logically gives another human being the "god given right" to oppress or cause suffering to others whom are innocent. Right and wrong is absolute terms is that simple. People need to be guided, or possibly even put into think tanks, to aquire universal mentality. Once they've gained it they will be free for they will have answers that have eluded man for many eons. Then people can be able to live in peace, freedom (with responsible boundaries), equality, prosperity, and knowledge. Further people could work towards a better society, where people look out for eachother rather than looking out for themselves and oppressing one another. The answer to equality isn't political correctness, it's balance. It's finding that middle road. It's moving beyond social labels (except where one is actively discriminated for a biological, and hince, unavoidable difference, such as race, gender, or even nuero-diversity).


Politicians more commonly resort to "politically incorrect" lies to manipulate people, though, snake321. You have some interesting ideas. Have you read Plato's "The Republic"? I have only read some of it.


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18 Feb 2007, 10:26 pm

AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
Open to question. In which periods was progress only in the West? For most of history the balance has been the other way. Conversely, in claiming the West to be inherently more unbalanced than the east, this negative claim about the west has no more basis than the positive statement that preceded it. Humanity is unbalanced. Whether this is linked to progress (though quite possibly you are right about this aspect at least) cannot be confirmed without a control "humanity" with perfect balance, whatever this might consist of, and seeing whether this led to a similar degree of progress or not.

The last period, which was during the last millennium. I would say that the West was more unbalanced in terms of power issues as the major drive for growth was to keep up with foreign powers. Humanity is unbalanced, this is a tautology, something that is in perfect balance does not act, action is derived from an instability or imperfection as most creatures and matter seeks a state of rest. There can be no control save for the dead, we need only look at logic. I am not going to claim that perfect instability is good either, however, obviously a proper imbalance of the reacting nature of humanity does seem to spur us on.



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18 Feb 2007, 10:31 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
Open to question. In which periods was progress only in the West? For most of history the balance has been the other way. Conversely, in claiming the West to be inherently more unbalanced than the east, this negative claim about the west has no more basis than the positive statement that preceded it. Humanity is unbalanced. Whether this is linked to progress (though quite possibly you are right about this aspect at least) cannot be confirmed without a control "humanity" with perfect balance, whatever this might consist of, and seeing whether this led to a similar degree of progress or not.

The last period, which was during the last millennium. I would say that the West was more unbalanced in terms of power issues as the major drive for growth was to keep up with foreign powers. Humanity is unbalanced, this is a tautology, something that is in perfect balance does not act, action is derived from an instability or imperfection as most creatures and matter seeks a state of rest. There can be no control save for the dead, we need only look at logic. I am not going to claim that perfect instability is good either, however, obviously a proper imbalance of the reacting nature of humanity does seem to spur us on.


But for the first third of that millennium the east was arguably more progressive. When, in your view, did stagnation set in in the east? And I was not disagreeing with your basic thesis that some inbalance may be essential to progress.


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snake321
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18 Feb 2007, 10:45 pm

AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
snake321 wrote:
It really shouldn't be as hard of a concept to grasp as people make it. Truth is balancing logic and emotion in a progressive way. Balance. Truth is working towards equality, freedom balanced out with responsibility, unbias, a society without sentient suffering, working towards making a balanced, utopian society possible. Truth isn't in tribalistic behavior, one can only find it in complete individuality and a deep passion for discovering the truth (although it came to me like common since almost once I reached an age of maturity). Truth is working together rather than against one another. The absolute in right and wrong is as simple as "are my actions hurting an innocent sentient being for reasons other than immediate self preservation?" Don't try to be dominant, aim for equality instead.
If people are throwing the truth out and following lies then society will never progress. The answer is in balance. I think alot of western society could learn things from the east.


I agree with much of this, but all this is fascilitated by banning political correctness from your threads HOW, exactly? As I said you have some good principles above. I just do not see the consistency with the aforesaid principles of excluding a group of sentient beings from your threads. And excluding them for an alleged, possibly actual, lack of tolerance for dissent seems particularly hypocritical. (You can now hardly accuse me of being unwilling to risk controversy!)


No, it's more like theyr letting their emotions over-ride logic. If they can't see the problem theyr usesless to fix it, or even to fix their own view. Political correctness is inverted bigotry, no different than religious fanatics.



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18 Feb 2007, 10:47 pm

AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
Politicians more commonly resort to "politically incorrect" lies to manipulate people, though, snake321. You have some interesting ideas. Have you read Plato's "The Republic"? I have only read some of it.

I like Machiavelli more.