1 in 4 Americans Believe the Sun Revolves Around the Earth

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It is the public's business. Whoever supports the schools get the say one or the other. At the moment the ivory tower brights that hold the most sway in the teacher mills have a heavy liberal influence on what is taught, but two things: 1) their students are still at the mercy of legal boundaries that determine what can/cannot be said in a classroom, and 2) profs are themselves at the mercy of public funding, meaning if enough people get sick of them they may wake up to find themselves out of a job. And not all universities are left-leaning...my first school was dominated by largely conservative teachers. I did my grad studies on a largely left-wing campus that genuinely practices what they preached with regard to fairness and tolerance of opposing viewpoints.

If more profs were libs in the truest sense, I'd have more respect for them. But sadly on the high school level where all this filters down, certain things just aren't open to discussion. If enough people cared about ID, for example, that it survived judicial opinions, public pressure would force its inclusion on the curriculum. Heck, if enough people voted for shariah law in the USA, you'd have it and we'd all be taking religion courses on the Koran, pray 5 times a day in school, etc. If that's what people want in schools, that's what they'll get.

I'm not unfriendly towards what's being currently taught, btw, and that isn't what this is about. It's about intrusion into what beliefs are taught at home, which the school system has no right to mess with.

"Heck, if enough people voted for shariah law in the USA, you'd have it". I don't see much difference between Shariah law and Christian biblical law. Christians just want to pick and choose what parts of the 92 different versions of their Bible they want to implement on and given day or place. Which actually is what makes Christian law so dangerous. It is too ambiguous and inconsistent. Too prone to the whims of people with no intellectual integrity.

Half of all Americans have an IQ of less than 100, 25% have an IQ in the 80s.

That they read the question and marked an answer is good.

Europeans seem the same.

Why the worry, afraid that less than universal agreement will cause bad luck?

Religion may seem strange, but it is all that holds some groups together, there is one answer, you cannot understand it, just have faith, and everything will work out.

It is a lie, but it is a consistant lie.

If I get up every day and have to recalibrate the universe, I will not get anything else done. While I somewhat agree with science, I still hold some doubts about evolution, the big bang, the speed of light, and the relationship of gravity and time. I still get up, boil water, and make tea.

Before enlightenment I chopped wood and hauled water, after enlightenment I chopped wood and hauled water.

Enlightenment is just the next step from where you are, there are more steps, and no one likes an uppity Bodasatva.

Well, I do not consider Buddhism a faith or a religion, and the majority of Buddhist monks that I am familiar with consider themselves to be Atheist There is no faith required to chop wood and haul water. all that is required is that we try each day to find ourselves through the simple act of being ourselves. "only don't know." mind

Hey, AR, do you not see the internal contradiction with the passages italicized above? As soon as you introduce more than one religion that makes truth-claims into a community with public schooling, somebody's child is going to see something in school that contradicts what they're taught at home. I wouldn't have picked you to be a post-modernist, but that's essentially what you're saying: that all ideas are equally valid, such that we should just hold a vote on which is most popular (as opposed to most congruent with reality), and teach that.

I think there is a document that protects us from the random whims of a majority. I can't quite remember the name of it. Some fancy word.

^*snicker*

It's not about equal validity. It's about the consequences of self-governance.

Just because a majority votes in favor of something doesn't make it a scientific fact or a universal truth. What I'm saying is that what ends up actually getting taught has to do with what the public as a whole is willing to support.

As teachers we are obligated to be respectful even if we disagree. I make no bones about how I feel about Witnesses, but that doesn't mean I was able to avoid teaching them. Because my subject area is heavily influenced by religion and church trends, it was impossible not to address religion and it's role. Which was fine until I introduced an actual practice/performance element, and that was something my Witness student could not in good conscience participate in. We worked out a deal in which she had an equivalency that satisfied unit requirements and yet did not violate her conscience. It put me in a precarious position. A less cool kid could have said, "no, I'm not doing that" and my curriculum development would have been set back a good 4 weeks. Don't worry, I had a backup plan anyway, but it wouldn't have been as easy or fun.

Not all teachers see it the way I do, and that's how the trouble starts.

There are ways of avoiding brushing up against religious beliefs, namely avoiding bringing it up. A discussion on the background of evolution and Darwin's theory need not even bring up religion. If a student were to jump in voluntarily and say evolution contradicts the Bible, all a teacher has to do is stick to the curriculum and remind the student that religious views aren't being discussed and Darwin is the topic. If a TEACHER brings up evolution in relation to faith, the door has been opened and the teacher is now obligated to allow the students to share their opinions. Teachers do not get to dictate to students what they're allowed to think or not think with regard to religion and must be careful how they navigate religious dialogue in the classroom if or when they choose to allow it.

It's not about equal validity...just about equal treatment, and validity is irrelevant in this kind of situation. I don't like what Witnesses have to say, but that doesn't give me any right to attack the beliefs of one in my classroom.

WRT postmodernism, I readily accept and celebrate absurdity and pastiche in artistic movements, and I'm highly attracted to postmodern aesthetics and make use of such devices in my own creative work. As an artist, I don't mind confessing that I'm a hard left radical extemist. I'm also a liberal in the sense that for the most part I espouse personal freedoms. I'm heavily right-leaning in terms of moral issues, social issues, and finance, as you well know, and that's what prevents me from identifying as a Libertarian.

I'm an eclectic who isn't all that crazy about labels though I accept a few for the sake of convenience. I have firsthand experience in the field of education and know how to get around certain curricular errors that have gotten teachers fired in recent years. My failing was never my knowledge of material, meeting objectives, or modifying behavior...it was my inability to get along with administrators.

And I see no internal contradictions. Right now the educational system does NOT have any such intrusive privilege. That doesn't mean that our society is unable to change its mind in favor of such intrusions, such as establishing a state religion or banning religious expression entirely. We could decide on a whim to get rid of our Constitution if we wanted to. Such as it is, those kinds of intrusions are unwelcome and will remain so unless or until we decide to change it. That's all I meant.

You mean that: half of all Americans are below average!

What shocking news!

I feel compelled once again to remind everyone that America is a Republic.

The majority are always right, even if they're wrong.

Its about time we unbuckled the bible belt!

It is not shocking to me to hear that so many Americans have an IQ in the 80 range. I am fortunate to report an IQ of 147, but the majority of my siblings are probably in the 65 range. When I was in the military, my superiors had IQs in the low 80's.. Peoples minds have been dumbed down from listening and watching Fox News, "reality tv", and the indoctrination process of religion, which will dumb any brain down to the consistency of bird seed. Easier to control and manipulate

Your average European thinks that the Sun is made of lava, that Transylvania is an American state, and that there are penguins at the North Pole. Half of the population is dumber "than the average bear", remember that.

An IQ of 80 means that you're too dumb to do most menial jobs, and an IQ between 70 and 80 generally (with some exceptions) means that you can't work without much supervision. The average American has a higher IQ than the average Canadian, Irishman, Finn, and Greek, to mention a few.

The media is politically biased across the entire globe, and the so-called religious indoctrination hypothesis, does a poor job explaining why the people of Singapore have the highest IQs in the world.

Here's the thing: it is illegal for any employee of a public school system to say anything that promotes their religious beliefs over accurate facts (within the school; they are free to do so when operating outside of school, though). It is equally illegal for a teacher to make statements about relgions being wrong (although they are allowed to say that an individual aspect of a religion is not supported be any valid science if that is the case (i.e. ID)). It is permissable for teachers to teach things that have been scientifically proven whether it violates a particular religious belief. Creationism and ID have no basis in fact, so should be excluded from any publicly funded education. You cannot structure a public education that uses its time to teach all beliefs that contradict what science says, and I don't think it should be done. If you think that children should be taught about ID and Creationism in public school, you would have to also include every disproven crackpot psuedo-science and conspiracy theory, even if it has been proven inaccurate.



Which is why private religious schools are allowed to teach all the religion they want. To include information in a science class that blatantly ignores science is absurd.