Libertarians are winning

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Raptor
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30 Mar 2014, 7:25 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Raptor wrote:

It was more than implied a while back by one of our nuttier liberals that I was faking Asperger's because I'm a conservative and my jingoistic avatar. I can't say who after using the term nuttier because then it would be a personal attack.

Well, that's obviously as wrong to accuse you of such a thing as it is for LibertarianAS to make that sort of charge against the rest of us.

Laughter is about about all the effect it had or could ever have on me.

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Misslizard
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30 Mar 2014, 7:25 pm

I was incorrect. :oops: Nag and Nagina are King Cobras.

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ArrantPariah
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30 Mar 2014, 7:53 pm

luanqibazao
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30 Mar 2014, 9:21 pm

LibertarianAS wrote:

Young people are too educated to believe in all the cultural conservative sh** like anti-gay and anti-drugs rhetoric but are more and more economically educated to favor a FREE MARKET over socialism and big f***ing government

Nobody among the young believe more in marxism, feminism and climate alarmism and all cultural marxist idiocy spawned by the left idiocies, people who call themselves "marxists" "communists" "socialists" "social justice warriors" are day after day more marginalized and laughed of while the young are joining en masse the freedom-train rejecting both corpofascism and socialism

The element of truth: idealistic American intellectuals, especially young ones, aren't reading Marx or Veblen any more, and outside the beleaguered ranks of the College Republicans, they aren't reading National Review. They're reading Rand and Rothbard. In the long run, it's ideas which drive a culture, so there is hope for the future; meanwhile, statism is left without an intellectual base.

Unfortunately the State is sustained both by corporations and unions which find it easier to buy politicians than compete in an open market, and by millions of people who have discovered that they can vote for free stuff. That's a lot of money and a lot of votes ....

Kraichgauer
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30 Mar 2014, 10:03 pm

luanqibazao wrote:

LibertarianAS wrote:

What you call voting "for free stuff" is actually the government actually doing things for their constituents.
I concede I don't know who the hell this Rothbard person is, but if the young are reading from Rand, then God help us, because the future belongs to self-centered sociopaths.

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Raptor
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30 Mar 2014, 10:15 pm

luanqibazao wrote:

LibertarianAS wrote:

The element of truth: idealistic American intellectuals, especially young ones, aren't reading Marx or Veblen any more, and outside the beleaguered ranks of the College Republicans, they aren't reading National Review. They're reading Rand and Rothbard. In the long run, it's ideas which drive a culture, so there is hope for the future; meanwhile, statism is left without an intellectual base.

Unfortunately the State is sustained both by corporations and unions which find it easier to buy politicians than compete in an open market, and by millions of people who have discovered that they can vote for free stuff. That's a lot of money and a lot of votes ....

I would imagine that what keeps most people voting democrat is simply not having a decent job with benefits or at least the gumption to work. We tend to vote what's in our best interest and truthfully, aside from free stuff, the dems don't offer much for the productive.....

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Dox47
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30 Mar 2014, 10:17 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I concede I don't know who the hell this Rothbard person is, but if the young are reading from Rand, then God help us, because the future belongs to self-centered sociopaths.

Have you ever actually read Ayn Rand, Bill?

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Kraichgauer
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30 Mar 2014, 10:19 pm

Raptor wrote:

luanqibazao wrote:

LibertarianAS wrote:

The element of truth: idealistic American intellectuals, especially young ones, aren't reading Marx or Veblen any more, and outside the beleaguered ranks of the College Republicans, they aren't reading National Review. They're reading Rand and Rothbard. In the long run, it's ideas which drive a culture, so there is hope for the future; meanwhile, statism is left without an intellectual base.

Unfortunately the State is sustained both by corporations and unions which find it easier to buy politicians than compete in an open market, and by millions of people who have discovered that they can vote for free stuff. That's a lot of money and a lot of votes ....

Are you reading off the Fox News crawl?

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Raptor
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30 Mar 2014, 10:27 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I concede I don't know who the hell this Rothbard person is, but if the young are reading from Rand, then God help us, because the future belongs to self-centered sociopaths.

Have you ever actually read Ayn Rand, Bill?

I imagine not but he's been her biggest spokesman here on WP and is probably responsible for the sales of several copies of Atlas Shrugged.
A week can't go by without him mentioning her several times. That's strong advertising!

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Kraichgauer
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30 Mar 2014, 10:43 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I concede I don't know who the hell this Rothbard person is, but if the young are reading from Rand, then God help us, because the future belongs to self-centered sociopaths.

Have you ever actually read Ayn Rand, Bill?

I read her book Anthem in high school. While at that age I hadn't yet grasped the ugliness of her "selfishness is a virtue" philosophy, even then I had a low opinion her writing ability and style.

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luanqibazao
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30 Mar 2014, 10:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

self-centered sociopaths

Careful slinging around the ad hominems. People are likely to conclude that you don't have a rational argument.

RushKing
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30 Mar 2014, 10:52 pm

Forget about Atlas Shrugged

This is the good stuff

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1365 ... spossessed

Kraichgauer
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30 Mar 2014, 10:56 pm

luanqibazao wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

self-centered sociopaths

Careful slinging around the ad hominems. People are likely to conclude that you don't have a rational argument.

I could care less what people enamored by Ayn Rand think about me.

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Raptor
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30 Mar 2014, 11:13 pm

/\
Have you ever considered that you may in a way at least in part be responsible for some of that enamoration?

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Kraichgauer
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30 Mar 2014, 11:23 pm

Raptor wrote:

/\
Have you ever considered that you may in a way at least in part be responsible for some of that enamoration?

Is enamoration even a real word?

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The_Walrus
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31 Mar 2014, 7:11 am

Jacoby wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Now why would anybody vote for any Republican or Democrat, why not start a new party? The problem there is that our political system works completely against a third party, the is no proportional representation and the only thing running third party will do is possibly spoil the result for someone else. We have to work with in the two parties,

In presidential elections (where it is either black or white), you make a good point, but not in elections to the Senate or Congress.

If two US states elect Libertarians in upcoming elections, they'd probably have the deciding votes.

There are several real life examples of this working. Probably the best one is pre-WWI Britain, where the Liberal Party had to appeal to the Irish Nationalists in order to pass legislation. This would have resulted in Ireland becoming autonomous, except for the breakout of war on the continent.

Furthermore, if there are truly a majority of people who would prefer a third party, then it doesn't matter- they should all just go for it!

Congress is elected by plurality of votes, it isn't proportional in any way. Getting 10 or 20% of the vote is meaningless, you get no representation. You can only do what you describe by working thru the Republican or Democratic parties which is what is happening. In the Senate you don't really have any choice, you either caucus with the Republicans or Democrats even if you somehow get elected as a third party. After the November, one of the parties will probably have pretty slim majority so you'll start seeing a guy like Rand Paul play a lot more important role in the balance of power. The Tea Party is going to have a last effect on this country and it's politics while Occupy fizzled out, they worked thru the Republican party while Occupy had drum circles in the park.

The House Of Commons isn't proportional in any way. Doesn't stop it containing seven (7) parties plus Northern Irish parties. Chances are, those 20% aren't shared throughout the country equally, and somewhere like Ohio or Colorado has enough to at least make a serious challenge in the race.

The Tea Party's lasting effect is probably 16 years of Obama-Clinton because the Republican Party is tarred by association in the eyes of floating voters. If Romney hadn't had to appeal to the religious right then he would have been more electable, and he didn't have to be much more electable to win. Contrast that with what the Lib Dems have achieved in coalition with the Conservatives in the UK...

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