What would you consider public funding of transgender care?

Page 4 of 6 [ 82 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


How would you consider support for public funding of transgender health care within currently existing public programs?
As an extremist far-left position out of touch with reality. 32%  32%  [ 11 ]
As a leftist position, unacceptable to centrists. 9%  9%  [ 3 ]
As a mainstream idea. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
As a conservative idea, designed to uphold the patriarchy. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
As purely a medical question; the input of the lay public is irrelevant. 56%  56%  [ 19 ]
Total votes : 34

Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,132
Location: Scandinavia

05 Apr 2014, 2:19 pm

Magneto wrote:
That was not the question that I posed. I will ask it again - should taxpayer money be used to fund mental health programs, within the existing state healthcare systems?


Yes, if they are means-tested and within reason. Paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to make an aspie a highly outgoing and social butterfly isn't money well spent, but job search training, social skills training, and so on is.



OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,447
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

05 Apr 2014, 2:19 pm

Magneto wrote:
Another question one might ask is, should the government fund mental health programs at all? After all, depression isn't exactly fatal. Autism is not inherently life threatening. Bipolar disorder won't kill you.

So, should taxpayers money be spent on such treatment?


Yes, but only after it treats disorders and diseases that directly kill you. You have 1. Saving life, then 2. Quality of life. Depression, mental health, disfigurment, gender problems, all those are quality of life issues. They aren't life or death issues unless the person involves commits suicide because of them. We have to help those who WILL DIE or be paralyzed, etc, without treatment before we treat those whose disorders make them sufficiently unhappy to end their own life. I have major depression, and while I would love to have free treatment for that, I would rather someone with diabetes or epilepsy or a tumor get treatment before I do. It's hard at times, but I can control my suicidal tendencies. I won't die from the depression directly. If I were to die from the depression it would be by making a decision to kill myself and going through with it. The same with gender issues. The OP won't die from being in the wrong body. She would die from making a decision to kill herself and going through with it because she doesn't want to be in that body. I'm not saying these aren't serious. They are. There just are more serious things out there which kill own their own without suicide. Those are the things we need to address first.


_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA. ;-)

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com


beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

05 Apr 2014, 3:17 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
Magneto wrote:
Another question one might ask is, should the government fund mental health programs at all? After all, depression isn't exactly fatal. Autism is not inherently life threatening. Bipolar disorder won't kill you.

So, should taxpayers money be spent on such treatment?


Yes, but only after it treats disorders and diseases that directly kill you. You have 1. Saving life, then 2. Quality of life. Depression, mental health, disfigurment, gender problems, all those are quality of life issues. They aren't life or death issues unless the person involves commits suicide because of them. We have to help those who WILL DIE or be paralyzed, etc, without treatment before we treat those whose disorders make them sufficiently unhappy to end their own life. I have major depression, and while I would love to have free treatment for that, I would rather someone with diabetes or epilepsy or a tumor get treatment before I do. It's hard at times, but I can control my suicidal tendencies. I won't die from the depression directly. If I were to die from the depression it would be by making a decision to kill myself and going through with it. The same with gender issues. The OP won't die from being in the wrong body. She would die from making a decision to kill herself and going through with it because she doesn't want to be in that body. I'm not saying these aren't serious. They are. There just are more serious things out there which kill own their own without suicide. Those are the things we need to address first.


Following your logic, since there are undoubtedly people with fatal but curable diseases that still need help but aren't getting it, I guess we can strip public funding of all other care. This would include palliative care (since the pain won't kill ya), cataract surgery (since going blind won't kill ya), diagnosis and treatments for retinal tears and detachments (again, since going blind won't kill ya), mental health care (since those illnesses don't kill ya directly), and many other areas of care. Following OOM's logic, until every single person with a fatal but curable disease is taken care of, let us strip public funding of everything else! That'll be the way to control the deficit! :wink:


_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin


beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

05 Apr 2014, 3:45 pm

OOM might also wanna have a look at this, before she tries to claim depression ain't really that serious:

Depression 'second leading cause of disability worldwide'

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/268367.php

I'm already on the edge of disability, with available intermittent medical leave days (under FMLA) for half the working month each month, for anxiety and depression primarily due to gender dysphoria.


_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin


LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

05 Apr 2014, 9:16 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Just to point out ...

1. U.S. Medicare pays at least 80% of the cost for "scooters" and "lifts" for immobile people, and so I dismiss the argument that "medical necessity" must be one that causes death if not treated.

2. I fail to understand a rationalization that a human mobility device merits coverage, however, the dreadful state of being transgender does not.

3. I dismiss any argument that says the U.S. "cannot afford it", or "does not have enough money", or "service have to be prioritized", because the U.S. has been on a long term spending binge, and the entire cost of trans care is trivial.


Seriously self defeating arguement here.

You trivize immobility as a problem.

Immobility is far more 'dreadful' than being an able bodied person with gender dysphoria.

So ofcourse it deserves coverage when a sex change operation does not.

So if you argue that way- folks will 'dismiss' YOU.


1. No argument was made. I cited three facts:

Fact 1: Medicare pays for 80% for scooters and lifts. I spent about one hour previously researching this on Medicare's website, and scooter websites.
Fact 2: I don't understand the rationale
Fact 3: The U.S. government is on a "spending binge" without financial restraint because in recent years the deficient have been 1-2 trillion.

My facts are not in question apparently, yet, somehow my supposed "argument" is called "self-defeating" and "piss poor".

If you disagree with these facts, then please explain.

2. I did not trivialize immobile people. Presently, in the U.S. prioritization of services happens, i.e., Medicare pays for X and not Y, to recognize this - is not trivializing the services that are paid for.

3. My first statement was merely pointing out that "medical necessity" does not mean death is a certainty if not treated. "Scooters" is an example where a doctor will write someone a statement of "medical necessity", so that Medicare will pay for it. However, not having a scooter will probably not lead to death.

4. My opinion is that you have absolutely no conception of gender dysphoria if you think simply being "immobile" (i.e., probably difficulty walking) is far worse than gender dysphoria. You provide no explanation for your rationale.



saren42
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 9

06 Apr 2014, 2:38 am

Just to call out everyone saying being transgender is easy, and gender dysphoria is not a big deal, think about it this way.

Say, you're born with a terrible birth defect, that goes unnoticed and ignored for 20+ years, finally you find out why you're always feeling sick, always dealing with more difficulties than anyone else, and always depressed and have no idea why anti-depressants don't work and help, no matter which ones you try, and which combination. If you were poor and on medicaid or something, wouldn't you want that to be able to be taken care of and fixed? Isn't that your right as a human being to be healthy and happy?



BraveMurderDay
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 251
Location: St. Paul

06 Apr 2014, 3:42 am

What role does social environment play in the equation? Where's the research on that? A lot of autistic think their lives could be much better if the social environment they lived in was different.



Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,132
Location: Scandinavia

06 Apr 2014, 8:33 pm

saren42 wrote:
Just to call out everyone saying being transgender is easy, and gender dysphoria is not a big deal, think about it this way.

Say, you're born with a terrible birth defect, that goes unnoticed and ignored for 20+ years, finally you find out why you're always feeling sick, always dealing with more difficulties than anyone else, and always depressed and have no idea why anti-depressants don't work and help, no matter which ones you try, and which combination. If you were poor and on medicaid or something, wouldn't you want that to be able to be taken care of and fixed? Isn't that your right as a human being to be healthy and happy?


My birth defect is called Asperger's syndrome. Very little of the stuff I've needed was covered by the government.



DevKit
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2014
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 107

06 Apr 2014, 10:13 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Those who think it is not necessary surgery - do you know how the suicide rate for pre-op trans people compares with the death rates for various treatments that we consider necessary?

Not as high as it is for returning vets who arealdy are not getting enough care. Or all the other people who already dont get enough because there isnt a budget for it.



OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,447
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

06 Apr 2014, 10:37 pm

beneficii wrote:
OOM might also wanna have a look at this, before she tries to claim depression ain't really that serious:

Depression 'second leading cause of disability worldwide'

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/268367.php

I'm already on the edge of disability, with available intermittent medical leave days (under FMLA) for half the working month each month, for anxiety and depression primarily due to gender dysphoria.


I know all about depression. It's ruined my life.

Please get off your high horse about how "The world is conspiring to keep me from getting my medically neccessary surgery so I can have the body I was meant to have because The Republicans and the Conservative Democrats and the Tea Party are out to get me!!"

Also, stop implying that if someone doesn't put trangender issues above everything else that they are homophonbic, tansphobic and hurting the trans community.

It's a locigal medical, social and political decision.

Also, if they were to spend money on sex change operations left and right whose going to see you when you run to the doctor because your throat hurts, or you can't sleep, or your nose runs or you think you might should take a Benadryl? All the doctors will be tied up fixing crotches.


_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA. ;-)

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com


saren42
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 9

06 Apr 2014, 10:40 pm

Kurgan wrote:
saren42 wrote:
Just to call out everyone saying being transgender is easy, and gender dysphoria is not a big deal, think about it this way.

Say, you're born with a terrible birth defect, that goes unnoticed and ignored for 20+ years, finally you find out why you're always feeling sick, always dealing with more difficulties than anyone else, and always depressed and have no idea why anti-depressants don't work and help, no matter which ones you try, and which combination. If you were poor and on medicaid or something, wouldn't you want that to be able to be taken care of and fixed? Isn't that your right as a human being to be healthy and happy?


My birth defect is called Asperger's syndrome. Very little of the stuff I've needed was covered by the government.


No, because that's (at this point in time) shown to be genetic. So, you're comment in not applicable.



Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,132
Location: Scandinavia

07 Apr 2014, 4:33 pm

saren42 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
saren42 wrote:
Just to call out everyone saying being transgender is easy, and gender dysphoria is not a big deal, think about it this way.

Say, you're born with a terrible birth defect, that goes unnoticed and ignored for 20+ years, finally you find out why you're always feeling sick, always dealing with more difficulties than anyone else, and always depressed and have no idea why anti-depressants don't work and help, no matter which ones you try, and which combination. If you were poor and on medicaid or something, wouldn't you want that to be able to be taken care of and fixed? Isn't that your right as a human being to be healthy and happy?


My birth defect is called Asperger's syndrome. Very little of the stuff I've needed was covered by the government.


No, because that's (at this point in time) shown to be genetic. So, you're comment in not applicable.


Gender dysphoria is genetic. A transgendered man will typically have a brain that's structurally similar to that of a woman, whereas a transgendered woman will typically have a brain that's structurally similar to that of a man.


_________________
“He who controls the spice controls the universe.”


Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 20,481
Location: Aux Arcs

07 Apr 2014, 4:42 pm

So do most people feel either male or female in their brains?In my brain I'm not really either,if that makes sense.


_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi


Hopper
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,920
Location: The outskirts

07 Apr 2014, 4:55 pm

Good question. I feel 'neutral' in that regard. I'm biologically male, but so much of 'masclinity' just looks performed to me. When I wondered (and was then assessed and diagnosed) about Aspergers, I put it down to that - that I didn't pick up on the 'how to be male' cues.

I'll try a poll.


_________________
Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


saren42
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 9

07 Apr 2014, 7:14 pm

Kurgan wrote:
saren42 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
saren42 wrote:
Just to call out everyone saying being transgender is easy, and gender dysphoria is not a big deal, think about it this way.

Say, you're born with a terrible birth defect, that goes unnoticed and ignored for 20+ years, finally you find out why you're always feeling sick, always dealing with more difficulties than anyone else, and always depressed and have no idea why anti-depressants don't work and help, no matter which ones you try, and which combination. If you were poor and on medicaid or something, wouldn't you want that to be able to be taken care of and fixed? Isn't that your right as a human being to be healthy and happy?


My birth defect is called Asperger's syndrome. Very little of the stuff I've needed was covered by the government.


No, because that's (at this point in time) shown to be genetic. So, you're comment in not applicable.


Gender dysphoria is genetic. A transgendered man will typically have a brain that's structurally similar to that of a woman, whereas a transgendered woman will typically have a brain that's structurally similar to that of a man.


You don't seem to know what the word genetic means. It means passed down from your parents. Being trans is more of a birth defect, where as autism has been shown to be passed down from your parents. I really hope you understand it this time, I'll just come back with links to a dictionary next time if I have to.



Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,132
Location: Scandinavia

07 Apr 2014, 7:30 pm

I rest my case.

http://www.webmd.com/sex/gender-identity-disorder


_________________
“He who controls the spice controls the universe.”