Hey Christians, how can you believe in this???

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And yet no Christian on this forum is prepared to discuss the historical evidence of Jesus, let alone the evidence for what their exalted figurehead actually believed. Instead what you get when you raise these questions is



Daedelus I have a great deal of respect for the maxim "learn from the past" unfortunately the past is often falsified.

In the case of the historical Jesus the evidence is there in the early Christian accounts but contemporary CHristians are compelled to overlook this.

Take Keet for example, here he is wringing his hands crying why Lord why. If he was to read his bible with more critical examination he would realise that Jesus did not care fore family or friends let alone the suffering animals. He believed the end times where upon them and the most important thing to do was to make piece with God and get ready for the Resurrection.

Last edited by DentArthurDent on 11 Jun 2014, 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

There are a lot of academics that would disagree with that, that Jesus was a failed prophet preaching the end of the world, only interested in "pie in the sky". That was something that was faddish 100 years ago with Albert Schweitzer, but few scholars believe that today. Even the most liberal scholar I can think of within the mainstream, John Dominic Crossan, doesn't believe Jesus was a "failed apocalyptic prophet".

"The past is often falsified"- I think that's very anti-intellectual as it dismisses the work of historians as scholars. We can disagree about the details of the past but to assume we cannot arrive at some kind of historical consensus seem unnecessarily defeatist.

Historical Jesus



I would love to agree with you,but all I see is evidence against at least that is from a mainstream perspective, sure there are many historians lettered and amateur who can explain that WW1 was not 'caused' by the assasination of Ferdinand by Gavrilo Princip, but you go out onto the street and do a poll, most will not have a clue,some will know that someone got assassinated, others will know who it was, some will know it happened in Sarajevo, but very very few will understand the political ramifications of this assassination.

Last edited by DentArthurDent on 12 Jun 2014, 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

WW I happened, directly, because of the Triple Alliance and the Triple Entente. Obviously, the assassination of Franz Ferdinand precipitated the mechanisms of the alliances.

It's a bit late to hope for that, but thanks anyway.

As interesting as it might be to debate this issue, at the moment, I'm still nursing a hangover after celebrating my thirteenth wedding anniversary last night.

Christianity had its day with the Crusades and the slaughter of the Cathars.

ruvern

Everybody at sometime or another behaves badly. Ancestors of the Jews in the long ago had behaved badly. But how many Christians and Jews today are going to emulate their ancestors? Damn few, I would think.

Which amounts to tired rhetoric that has nothing to do with the veracity of the truth claims of Christianity. Especially tired since some of the most irreligious societies in the 20th century killed many more people than the medieval Church ever dreamed of doing.

And you prove my point. The above quote is just one step removed from 'the war happened because some bloke shot a prince'. You have gone from identifying the finger that pushed the dominoes to understanding that there were dominoes (more than two BTW) However It is vitally important to try and understand the causes of the symptoms. And this is my point, people do not want to know, or rather they are told that they do not want to know. The origins of WW1 can be traced back decades, but discovering the truth of the matter might wake people up to what is going on today, so the media vomits forth the age worn story that the war started because Gavrilo Princip (his name is never mentioned as it is too much information) shot and killed the Arch Duke Ferdinand in Sarajevo, most people are unaware of where Sarajevo is and what nationality the Duke was, let alone why he was there and why Princip killed him. The same goes for Jesus, even though they have the information at hand if only they would care to read their bible with a critical mind, christians are content to swallow whatever they are told by their particular church leaders, whose viewpoint changes with each epoch.

Ok so do you want to debate the voracity of contemporary christian beliefs? Trust me I am raring to go.

Of course there were many precipitating factors--some of which go back hundreds of years.

What I was referring to was what IMMEDIATELY lead to the actual war.

Just like the attack on Fort Sumter lead IMMEDIATELY to the Civil War.

We know the various backgrounds of that war--Slavery, economic disparity between North and South, "states' rights," etc.

You cannot blame a theology for the sins of individuals. Lay their sin on them instead of unjustly condemning an entire faith. On the whole, Christians do not believe that Jesus was simply a, "man". We believe he was the son of God who set forth a new testament.

I disagree with this line of thought. It treats religious theology as being devoid of reason. In truth religious theology is simply a philosophy that attempts to reason human existence. It entertains such ideas as, why am I here, by what reason should I strive to be moral, and what is the nature of my being. Granted however, there are those who blindly follow religion, just as there are those who follow scientific theory blindly. Both are devoid of the faculty of reason and let others dictate the direction of their mind and uncontrolled emotions.

If I may...science has never made me question my faith. I mean, atomically, we are dust bound together by energy in a configuration on par with the universe itself. More space than weight, if you will; we'd tear apart the universe if we were full, as that would result in a black hole due to all that concentrated mass. And all energy is bound to return to zero at some point, so, "From Dust, Unto Dust." And, well, how we're a grain of sand adrift amongst the universe...it's quite humbling that the Bible, as much as it a product by and for men, called these absolutes of our reality.

The biggest problem I have with all these arguments about how horrible religion can be is that you keep blaming the men behind it. And yes, humans can be malicious, spiteful creatures. There have been horrible men acting under the guise of God's will, just as there are horrible people in every corner of the world; it's unfair to assume that Christians or any one group is responsible for all the evil on our rock. Furthermore, you blame history just as much as you blame the radicals of one sect of society. How is that constructive? How is that going to solve the problems we possess today? Can't you see how the bitterness and hatred we carry is what inspires those that come after us to be horrible people, just as the people who came before you left you bitter and spiteful? Answer me this:

Why are you insisting on blaming the Breath that Be, which left this world breathing to this day, for the choices that were clearly allotted to man?

Yes, Genesis isn't necessarily fact. The universe is far older than we are, and I respect that, but the Word made it clear that He spoke through parable. Ergo, like a book of Aesop's Fables, there are truths to be garnered from the Bible. And what I understand is this: after Adam and Eve were brought into being, the Breath showed them a tree from which they were not to eat. In the middle of physical paradise. Naked, and debatably endowed. And then The Breath gave them autonomy, and left them to do as they saw fit.

Seriously, I think you all are incredibly biased if you think that the Breath didn't know that these two adrift souls weren't going to be a wee bit frisky with each other. Or that he didn't want these two to experience all this coil he wrought. But these two ended up damaging each other, and from Grace they fell; this is a subject for a whole other essay (as this has turned out to be o.o), but is off the current topic. The capacity for apathy has always existed in us; from this apathy, evil can spawn and damage those around us. But these were the choices allotted to we, each individual, to make. The actions of men have wrought the way the world has come to be today, and I think it's silly to be so determined to snuff out this 'sky-wizard' image you all are obsessed with.

I realize that I'll be posting this to plenty of hearts of stone, and I'm tired. Coming up with the Logos that might stay some of this spite is draining on my mental well-being. So I'm bugging out for the evening. Breathe, and Peace be with all ye.

Very similar to my beliefs.