Anti-Israel ads campaign.

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thomas81
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12 Jun 2014, 3:19 pm

Kurgan wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

Jews were second rate citizens and subject to several genocides under both the Arabs and the Romans, and at times, they numbered only a handful due to persecution. There never was a Palestinian state; the European socialists like to pretend there was, but this is nothing more than a passion play to stir up the people against the jews. The Brits regarded the area as a part of Southern Syria.

There never was a Jewish state prior to 1946, does that legitimise the nazi pogroms against the Jews?

Yes, there was. Israel existed back in the bronze ages. You're denying historical evidence to spread propaganda.

Oh, the bronze age. Whoop-de-doo. The tenuous historical connections get even better. You have to go back to pre-new testament times to justify your point.

Ok, there was no Jewish state AT THE TIME of the nazi pogroms. Does that legitimise them?

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Raptor
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12 Jun 2014, 3:32 pm

/\ Well let's see here; The Jewish State (Israel) was formed by the UN primarily for the Jews whose numbers had been decimated in the millions in nazi occupied Europe so I don't imagine many of them felt like living there any more. They were turned away from immigrating to just about every other nation even before the final solution was implemented. Yeah, shame on them for wanting a home of their own, especially when it already had been for a few thousand years. Personally, I don't think it matters to you what land ended up officially becoming their homeland. If we'd instead given them the Aleutians you'd have a beef with that, too.

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Kurgan
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12 Jun 2014, 3:38 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

There never was a Jewish state prior to 1946, does that legitimise the nazi pogroms against the Jews?

Yes, there was. Israel existed back in the bronze ages. You're denying historical evidence to spread propaganda.

So you're saying that once Israel manages to keep the land for two thousand years, it's officially theirs to keep? All the more reason why Hamas should stay the f*ck away.

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thomas81
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12 Jun 2014, 3:39 pm

My response to Kurgan summarised in an image.

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thomas81
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12 Jun 2014, 3:43 pm

Raptor wrote:

You conveniently skim the fact that the land the Zionists were given by the British was populated by an indigenous group that had not given their consent for Israel to be formed.

Dispersing one indigenous population to remedy the persecution of another group isn't a solution.

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The_Walrus
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12 Jun 2014, 3:44 pm

This is a ridiculous argument.

No sensible person would deny that Hamas are very bad people. But that doesn't justify the (albeit lesser) atrocities that Israel commits. To say it's alright for Israel to do these things because they've abolished the death penalty is stupid. And tu quoque is a logical fallacy.

thomas81
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12 Jun 2014, 3:45 pm

Kurgan wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

There never was a Jewish state prior to 1946, does that legitimise the nazi pogroms against the Jews?

Yes, there was. Israel existed back in the bronze ages. You're denying historical evidence to spread propaganda.

So you're saying that once Israel manages to keep the land for two thousand years, it's officially theirs to keep? All the more reason why Hamas should stay the f*ck away.

The main reason hamas are in power is because they are percieved on the ground as the only ones who talk tough about dealing with Israel. How is a moderate Palestinian leadership supposed to succeed when Palestine is being blown and bulldozed to s**t by the IDF?

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12 Jun 2014, 3:48 pm

Might be an idea if this silly squabbling was replaced by something on-topic that addresses the claims made by the images linked in the first post.
There ought to be facts available to prove or disprove them, surely?

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thomas81
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12 Jun 2014, 3:49 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

We had a similar phenomenon here in the 6 counties after the bloody sunday massacre. When the parachute regiment shot 14 civillians in cold blood, it was the best recruitment poster that the British could have given the IRA. What Israel is doing in Palestine for Hamas in the Gaza Strip is exactly what the British did for the IRA in Londonderry in 1972.

I find it interesting though that you find Israel's atrocities are 'lesser'. What is this based on, that they have a recognised government therefore it becomes somehow legitimate? Like when the United States bombs a country and inflicts tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths, congenital deformities and horrendous cancers because of depleted uranium?

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Last edited by thomas81 on 12 Jun 2014, 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kurgan
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12 Jun 2014, 3:52 pm

thomas81 wrote:

My response to Kurgan summarised in an image.

I'll take you seriously the day you vouch for a boycott of Venezuela, China, Belarus, Zimbabwe, Vietnam, Laos or Iran before you speak of a boycott of Israel. Until then, your views can be summarized as antisemittic, or at the very least sympathetic to those of the jihadists.

Your cartoon is no different than that used by antisemittic organizations today. In fact, reading your posts, is like reading some of the posts at Vigrid, Norway's largest white supremacy group. They too hide behind the "I'm not an anti-semite, I'm an anti-zionist" pathetic excuse.

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Kurgan
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12 Jun 2014, 3:55 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

There never was a Jewish state prior to 1946, does that legitimise the nazi pogroms against the Jews?

Yes, there was. Israel existed back in the bronze ages. You're denying historical evidence to spread propaganda.

So you're saying that once Israel manages to keep the land for two thousand years, it's officially theirs to keep? All the more reason why Hamas should stay the f*ck away.

All the more reason for Hamas to implement a free press, to stop spending the foreign aid on themselves, to stop sending thousands of missiles at civilian targets, and all that. All Israel asks for, is that they manage to stick to the f*cking ceasefire once.

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thomas81
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12 Jun 2014, 4:07 pm

Kurgan wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

There never was a Jewish state prior to 1946, does that legitimise the nazi pogroms against the Jews?

Yes, there was. Israel existed back in the bronze ages. You're denying historical evidence to spread propaganda.

So you're saying that once Israel manages to keep the land for two thousand years, it's officially theirs to keep? All the more reason why Hamas should stay the f*ck away.

That would be a lot easier to believe, if Israel werent sending more settlers into recognised Palestinian territories irrespective of whether or not Palestine honours the ceasefire.

Moreover, it is difficult for a moderate leadership to thrive in a climate of oppression and bloodshed. This was proven in Northern Ireland, it was proven in Chechnya and Afghanistan and its being proven in Gaza.

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thomas81
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12 Jun 2014, 4:10 pm

Kurgan wrote:

Venezuela, China, Belarus, Zimbabwe, Vietnam, Laos or Iran werent formed from the land theft of indigenous populations. Your stubbornness in clinging onto the idea that Israel wasn't to create this ridiculous strawman that i am an anti semite is tiresome to say the least.

Kurgan wrote:

Your cartoon is no different than that used by antisemittic organizations today.

There is no anti semitic content in the cartoon. Again, this is a pathetic strawman.

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Cornflake
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12 Jun 2014, 4:18 pm

Topic lost as the thread collapses into the usual bickering.
Let me know if anyone feels able to address the opening post without hissing and waving handbags around, when I'll unlock it.

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