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Raptor
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21 Jun 2014, 3:09 pm

MaxE wrote:
In reference to the subject, I think the German energy policy is grossly irresponsible for two reasons. By shutting down all their nuclear plants, they have:

1.) Increased their CO2 output by relying more heavily on coal-fired power plants to compensate for the loss of nuclear power.
2.) Put themselves politically at the mercy of Russia due to fear that Russia will interfere with their access to natural gas if they don't dance to the Russians' tune.


In other words they've royally f*cked themselves over all for the purpose of appearing to be green.


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22 Jun 2014, 7:18 am

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... e-20140618


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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22 Jun 2014, 10:49 am

MaxE wrote:
In reference to the subject, I think the German energy policy is grossly irresponsible for two reasons. By shutting down all their nuclear plants, they have:

1.) Increased their CO2 output by relying more heavily on coal-fired power plants to compensate for the loss of nuclear power.
2.) Put themselves politically at the mercy of Russia due to fear that Russia will interfere with their access to natural gas if they don't dance to the Russians' tune.


Hmm? I thought that was what the SOLAR energy was for...to fill in the gaps left by Nuclear. Hey if people want to go solar more power to them. It would spare them from having to rely on power grids. If someone told me I could go solar at home, live like I do while on the grid and then even sell the surplus energy I generated, I would do it in a heartbeat. I wouldn't have to pay anyone for my energy usage, would I? Of course there would be factions who would throw a fit because they would want to see me pay and pay and pay.


I consider myself a true conservative, btw, in the real sense of the word, not faux.



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22 Jun 2014, 5:30 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Hmm? I thought that was what the SOLAR energy was for...to fill in the gaps left by Nuclear.

No, because solar is incapable of responding to demand, and it is also still fairly unreliable. Hydroelectricity can do that job, but it is environmentally disastrous.



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22 Jun 2014, 7:05 pm

It should also be added that the kind of distributed system discussed above won't reduce the need for a grid. That's determined by the peak transmission demand, which would only go down with better power storage. At the moment it would just mean that the grid sits idle most of the time, while the cost of repairing downed lines and such wouldn't change.

PV cells can be improved, but so can almost anything. Why polish a turd? At best you'll have the energy independence that we had in 1950. The only advantage is that it's "safer." Having high capacity power storage systems in every house isn't going to be safer than nuclear. On the contrary, it will almost certainly kill more people. You'll also need to maintain PV arrays on rooftops, which isn't safe work (especially in winter). Since the total fatalities from nuclear power in the last half century have been in the low hundreds (~5 per year in the whole world), even including deaths of miners and estimated increases in cancer deaths after Chernoybl, it won't take many fires or accidents to outpace it.

Oh, and the idea that maintaining your own PV array and storage system will be cheaper than contracting it out it dubious. I like having control of my own stuff, so I often do things like that just for the sake of independence, but I don't pretend that it saves me money.



trollcatman
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22 Jun 2014, 10:14 pm

SoftwareEngineer wrote:
MaxE wrote:
In reference to the subject, I think the German energy policy is grossly irresponsible for two reasons. By shutting down all their nuclear plants, they have:

1.) Increased their CO2 output by relying more heavily on coal-fired power plants to compensate for the loss of nuclear power.
2.) Put themselves politically at the mercy of Russia due to fear that Russia will interfere with their access to natural gas if they don't dance to the Russians' tune.


Very good points. In reference to point 2, Germany has economically burdened itself with socialism to the extent they may not be viable opposing the Russians in Cold War II, so they will have to live according to Russian dictates.

That said, I have a German inverter on my solar system and it works very well.


Germany is economically burdened by socialism? This is so far out. Germany is the economic powerhouse of Europe and has economic freedom comparable to the US. Unlike the US though, they have a positive balance of trade (and a big one too). They are a very productive country (chart below).
The Germans (and other Europeans) are already dependant on Russian gas and oil. Aside from some token sanctions the EU won't do anything against Russia. I think most people believe now that Crimea isn't going back to Ukraine anyway. Still, closing down the nuclear power plants was a stupid move in my opinion, but the Germans I've spoken to were all very much anti-nuclear.

Image



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22 Jun 2014, 10:27 pm

Solar just "feels" better to some people without actual rime or reason. Say "nuclear energy" within earshot of them and they screech "CHERNOBYL!" or "THREE MILE ISLAND!" without looking at actual facts. Go price solar energy systems for your house and discover that solar energy is far from free.


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Misslizard
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22 Jun 2014, 10:31 pm

The price will come down on solar.Ive been drooling over this.
http://www.lennox.com/products/solar-ready/
The idea of the sun cooling my house just seems wonderful.


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22 Jun 2014, 10:46 pm

/\ I love the idea of not being raped monthly by the power company, too, but I'm not holding my breath on solar being a viable alternative for a while.


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22 Jun 2014, 11:04 pm

^Your rates are probably higher than mine,I pay about $90.00 during the summer.Once thing I was able to invest in was good insulation and windows.I don't heat or cool rooms I don't use either.Its a good investment to weatherize a home,anyone can caulk and it's not that expensive.The way plants are arranged in the yard can make a difference,shade tree on the sunny side and evergreen trees for windbreaks for northern winter winds.Planting extremely thorny shrubs under the windows blocks drafts,gives shade, plus the advantage that thieves don't really like sticker bushes.


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22 Jun 2014, 11:06 pm

Putting your faith in the nuclear industry is ridiculous. The industry is corrupt as f**k.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlz7yIVtdnk#t=82[/youtube]



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22 Jun 2014, 11:15 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPbsWhDWvTY[/youtube]Actually Obama Visited my neighboring cities local walmart I was there and he made a speech about going solar!


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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22 Jun 2014, 11:48 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Hmm? I thought that was what the SOLAR energy was for...to fill in the gaps left by Nuclear.

No, because solar is incapable of responding to demand, and it is also still fairly unreliable. Hydroelectricity can do that job, but it is environmentally disastrous.


Where I live, it would not be unreliable.



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22 Jun 2014, 11:55 pm

Stannis, do you really want to quote a guy who painted Hugo Chavez and his cronies as pure-hearted champions of the poor?



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23 Jun 2014, 8:39 am

NobodyKnows wrote:
Stannis, do you really want to quote a guy who painted Hugo Chavez and his cronies as pure-hearted champions of the poor?


Actually Palast never suggested that Chavez was pure hearted, and the reality is that Chavez did do a lot of good for poor people:

Quote:
To maintain political support, Mr Chavez expanded his social programmes using the income derived from high oil prices.

Minimum wages were increased sharply and many Venezuelans were lifted out of poverty.

Other social indicators, notably literacy, also improved and Mr Chavez and his political movement had little difficulty in defeating an opposition that was deeply divided and unable to adjust to the new Venezuelan realities.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-15240081