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Misslizard
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24 Jul 2014, 9:38 am

It's just wrong to bomb hospitals.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle ... rt-n161086


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thomas81
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24 Jul 2014, 9:43 am

The situation wouldnt be nearly so bad if Israel would just instate the right of return for Palestinian refugees. Aside from the fact that all of Gaza is pretty much a target, part of the reason why Gazans are unwilling to flee is that they cannot return to their homes if they leave the territory.


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Misslizard
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24 Jul 2014, 9:46 am

An old saying comes to mind,"stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea."


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thomas81
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24 Jul 2014, 10:02 am

GGPViper wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
The US government is definitely giving Israel a pass:
http://www.kabc.com/common/more.php?m=58&article=980DC53912E511E4B51EFEFDADE6840A&mode=2
Quote:
The United Nations Human Rights Council voted Wednesday to establish a commission of inquiry into incidents in Gaza, investigating whether any war crimes have been committed in the area.

The United States was the only county to vote against establishing the investigation, while Britain, Germany, and France abstained.

Addressing the U.S. decision, State Department deputy spokesperson Marie Harf said the country had no issue being the sole vote against the commission, adding that the U.S. will continue to stand up for Israel, "even if it means standing alone."

...*Ahem*...

*This* is what the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) is about.
http://www.humanrightsvoices.org/EYEont ... Resolution

In its history 44 out of UNHRC's 127 resolutions (34.65 percent) about human rights violations worldwide have been about Israel, with only 10 resolutions about Sudan and Syria each, 5 about North Korea and 2 about Iran.

This bias so extravagant that it completely undermines the legitimacy of the UNHRC.

Furthermore, the recently replaced UNHRC "Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1967", Richard Falk, was a 9/11 Truther who had a history of anti-semitic remarks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Falk

Finally, here is the UNHRC mandate for the aforementioned special rapporteur (now Makarim Wibisono):
http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/EF7 ... D2004B1194

Resolution 1993/2 wrote:
4. Decides to appoint a special rapporteur with the following mandate:

(a) To investigate Israel's violations of the principles and bases of international law, international humanitarian law and the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, in the Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967;

In other words, the Special Rapporteur can only investigate the actions of Israel, not those of Hamas or any other Palestinian group.

And the recently passed UNHRC resolution about an inquiry into the Gaza conflict doesn't even mention Hamas with a single word.
http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/HRBodies ... 1-1_en.doc


So the percieved 'bias' of one group legitimises what Israel is doing in Gaza, is spite of the obvious military assymetry?

The narrative that what Israel is doing is in any way defensive is easilly debunked. Israel has an up and coming energy crisis. What they really care about are the gas reserves off the Gaza coast.

Image


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Kraichgauer
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24 Jul 2014, 11:22 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Whenever an American Christian discusses with me about the conflict:

Image


How typical.

Much of the US people's support for Israel is based on religion, not on reason.


That's certainly the case considering American evangelicals who take literally that Christ will return to Jerusalem to instigate his thousand year rule. They believe Christ is like George W. Bush in saying: "If you're not with us, you're against us." Or in other words, they believe they'll get on Jesus' good side by supporting Israel.
There is a member of my particular congregation who, because his father's family are a bunch of Texas fundies and holy rollers, throws his support behind Israel for purely religious reasons at 100%. A clear contradiction to the theology of not only our Lutheranism, but most mainline Protestantism in general, which views Christianity as the spiritual Israel, and the events of the book of Revelations as having already occurred for the most part in the 1st century.


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Humanaut
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24 Jul 2014, 1:44 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
The Israelis don't use AKs. They use the Tavor, and different variants of the Galil.

Yeah, apples and oranges.

There is not much infantry action going on, though. Precision strikes seem to be the order of the day. They can even squeeze missiles through narrow windows:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL60ATI9juo[/youtube]



AspE
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24 Jul 2014, 3:04 pm

opal wrote:
I hear there are moves to charge the Israelis with war crimes. We can only hope so. Since when is shooting fish in a barrel justifiably turned into " hey we're just protecting ourselves and our land"
Well news flash guys, it's not your land. Anyone who knows anything about the history of the place knows this.
They have a star wars missile intercept system, impenetrable walls around the Gaza strip, they control the sea, the airspace, the land and any road in or out. They have been "settling" Palestinian land for decades.

Shooting fish in a barrel

Asymmetrical doesn't mean immoral. How long would you let a child poke you with a sharp pencil before you did something about it?



thomas81
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24 Jul 2014, 3:15 pm

AspE wrote:
opal wrote:
I hear there are moves to charge the Israelis with war crimes. We can only hope so. Since when is shooting fish in a barrel justifiably turned into " hey we're just protecting ourselves and our land"
Well news flash guys, it's not your land. Anyone who knows anything about the history of the place knows this.
They have a star wars missile intercept system, impenetrable walls around the Gaza strip, they control the sea, the airspace, the land and any road in or out. They have been "settling" Palestinian land for decades.

Shooting fish in a barrel

Asymmetrical doesn't mean immoral. How long would you let a child poke you with a sharp pencil before you did something about it?


The logical conclusion here is that you would justify attacking that same child with a sword.


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thomas81
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24 Jul 2014, 3:17 pm

Humanaut wrote:
There is not much infantry action going on, though. Precision strikes seem to be the order of the day. They can even squeeze missiles through narrow windows:

]


Of course, why give your enemy a chance to fight back?

That is Israel all over, they don't even fight honourably. The British in Northern Ireland were a bunch of shitbags but at least they put boots on the ground.


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AspE
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24 Jul 2014, 3:53 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
There is not much infantry action going on, though. Precision strikes seem to be the order of the day. They can even squeeze missiles through narrow windows:

]


Of course, why give your enemy a chance to fight back?

That is Israel all over, they don't even fight honourably. The British in Northern Ireland were a bunch of shitbags but at least they put boots on the ground.

...he says as Hamas fires rockets at random civilian areas while hiding in schools and hospitals.



opal
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25 Jul 2014, 4:13 am

AspE wrote:
opal wrote:
I hear there are moves to charge the Israelis with war crimes. We can only hope so. Since when is shooting fish in a barrel justifiably turned into " hey we're just protecting ourselves and our land"
Well news flash guys, it's not your land. Anyone who knows anything about the history of the place knows this.
They have a star wars missile intercept system, impenetrable walls around the Gaza strip, they control the sea, the airspace, the land and any road in or out. They have been "settling" Palestinian land for decades.

Shooting fish in a barrel

Asymmetrical doesn't mean immoral. How long would you let a child poke you with a sharp pencil before you did something about it?



opal
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25 Jul 2014, 4:15 am

opal wrote:
AspE wrote:
opal wrote:
I hear there are moves to charge the Israelis with war crimes. We can only hope so. Since when is shooting fish in a barrel justifiably turned into " hey we're just protecting ourselves and our land"
Well news flash guys, it's not your land. Anyone who knows anything about the history of the place knows this.
They have a star wars missile intercept system, impenetrable walls around the Gaza strip, they control the sea, the airspace, the land and any road in or out. They have been "settling" Palestinian land for decades.

Shooting fish in a barrel

Asymmetrical doesn't mean immoral. How long would you let a child poke you with a sharp pencil before you did something about it?

Do you really have the right to complain when you stole their paper, their pencils ,banned them from schools and as someone else said, retaliate with swords? seriously get a grip!! !!



The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Jul 2014, 6:42 am

Hey, Native Americans were called barbarians/savages too, just saying.

And they indeed kidnapped whites too and did atrocities against settlers, just saying.



Ann2011
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25 Jul 2014, 9:13 am

I saw an Israeli official on CNN yesterday blaming the Palestinians for making them kill civilians. I find that disingenuous. It's like the abuser saying that the abused made them do it.
I don't really support either side in this as I think they are both behaving badly, but take responsibility for your actions for heaven's sake.



Misslizard
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25 Jul 2014, 9:23 am

Shelling a school where people thought they would be safe.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-25/1 ... ol/5622832
What the doctor saw.
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/2 ... rt-in-gaza


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Ann2011
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25 Jul 2014, 11:37 am

Gaza UN school shelter hit, 'killing 13'-BBC

Quote:
Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu said on Thursday he regretted each Palestinian civilian death, but said they were "the responsibility of Hamas".


The Israelis refuse to take responsibility for their actions. I see this as cowardly.