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21 Sep 2014, 4:59 pm

I don't see why they can't exist side by side in relative harmony.
Sure, religion has some gaps or incorrect things, but it can change. Same with science.

I prefer science over religion, and I'm an atheist, but I think it's hard to compare them since they're basically separate realms at this point. Science deals with what we can observe and religion deals with what we cannot. *shrug*


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21 Sep 2014, 9:28 pm

I put faith in both personally.

My religious beliefs are a bit complicated to explain, but it makes sense in my mind.



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21 Sep 2014, 10:02 pm

Neither one is "more" correct than the other because they both answer different questions. I don't find science all that interesting, but if it gives meaning to some people's lives, then good for them.



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22 Sep 2014, 12:58 am

YourMum wrote:
Is that meant to be satire?
Not at all just pointing out the ridicule that religion provides on an actual logicial realistic level. Religious people stick to a book of fairytales regardless of actual physical provable discoveries being made proving certain things in their book incorrect so they willfully allow themselves to be ignorant and plug their ears and refuse to learn new things.


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22 Sep 2014, 1:05 am

As a Classical Pantheist and Yogi leaning kind of guy, which is the farthest thing away from atheist there is; Classical Pantheism and the YOGI way sees science as the scribe of the GOD of nature. From the Golden Spiral mean seen in the Milky Way to the same Golden Spiral mean seen in Quantum Physics.

Science is an attempt to describe GOD, in measurable and quantifiable description, but only an approximation of course. Again, as scribe of GOD.

The essence of GOD is what IT IS. Humans try to understand the GOD of nature. Yes, try they do, and try they will likely always do, with the tools of science. Learning more about GOD as time goes by, but learning all about GOD; nah, not much more likely than a flea learning all about DOG.

It's just common sense. And pretty cool to believe in a GOD big enough, where Science can never likely wrap the science around the WHOLE Thing that is GOD.

The GOD of nature gives humankind reason and emotion. It is FAIRLY silly to use either without the other. But, yes some people do seem to attempt to do this; sadly or unreasonably enough, WITHOUT the other.


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23 Sep 2014, 11:01 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
YourMum wrote:
Is that meant to be satire?
Not at all just pointing out the ridicule that religion provides on an actual logicial realistic level. Religious people stick to a book of fairytales regardless of actual physical provable discoveries being made proving certain things in their book incorrect so they willfully allow themselves to be ignorant and plug their ears and refuse to learn new things.


It's not 'logical' or 'realistic' at all though, is it. The analogy provided doesn't actually resemble any issue facing religious thought. At very best it addresses the problem of certain kinds of American Protestants turning their noses up at scientific thought, but it doesn't even do a particularly good job at this. Even if it did it would still be a petty argument against a very specific set of people trying to pass itself off as total refutation of any world view outside of its own, which is arrogant to say the least.

Religious texts aren't 'fairytales' either. Both take quite different forms and serve quite different purposes (religious texts of course being the far more diverse of the two).

The idea that 'science proves religion false' is the result of a clashing of languages and an unwillingness to compromise. It would be really nice if both parties in this dispute could have a decent go at trying to understand the other, trying to see the world from the other's perspective, just for long enough to see that there's no need for disagreement.



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24 Sep 2014, 7:39 am

guzzle wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
Reality is a concept of the observer. what multitudes of observers see altogether gets written down as fact, the fact is not everyone sees it the same. This is were philosophy comes in. When logical minds start to think science seems not know s**t.

Don't be a reptile! Go off your rocker once in a while.


Like is my pupil a black hole? I mean it would have to be one with two events horizons.
The one observed by those looking without the aid of an opticians tool that allows the optician to see more than what the naked eye can see?
My logic for asking the question comes down to the dual wave property.
What if the light splits as it hits the rods and cones inside my eye that possibly serves as seperator?
Doubt if the instruments are available to even measure that without killling me in the process.
Still, I can accept that the wave property of the sunlight that enters my body through my pupil gets absorbed by my nervous system as it is energy.
But what happens to the matter part of the light? I mean, does it come out with all the other crap or maybe it gets expelled as i sneeze.
My maths is useless too
But if emotions are no more than neurochemical variables and everything that we are is defined by our genetic make up why do identical twins have different finger print patterns?

I love reptiles.

What I am saying is that everyone has their own little world or their own mind about things.
People don't see the world the same way and that is that.
No matter how much two people share a love of science or ideas about life they still will disagree on how the world works in at least one way.
I'm not trying to spout idealistic nonsense, I was being serious.


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24 Sep 2014, 7:43 am

mezzanotte wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
wisdom or emotional/moral revelations


Philosophy, psychology, literature, the arts?

Psycology has nothing to do with morals, only theories on how morals work/come to be.
Philosophy can come from a completely illogical mind as well.
The arts can come from a completely illogical mind, even more so than philosophy.


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24 Sep 2014, 7:47 am

AspE wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXg7dlrnoa0[/youtube]Science is the bane of religion and is soon bound to replace religion as the true solution to humanities problems.
The day the logical mind or science itself produces any real wisdom or emotional/moral revelations, let me know.

How about recognizing the genetic reasons for autism?

That is knowledge. Wisdom is a question of right or wrong. Knowledge is who, what, when, where, why, and how.


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24 Sep 2014, 2:58 pm

Trick question. They are both seperate issues and have no business being compared. Science is for schools. Religion is for church. Narry they should ever meet.

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24 Sep 2014, 3:00 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
Trick question. They are both seperate issues and have no business being compared. Science is for schools. Religion is for church. Narry they should ever meet.


^ This.


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tern
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25 Sep 2014, 5:34 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Religious people stick to a book of fairytales regardless of actual physical provable discoveries being made proving certain things in their book incorrect
What about the religious folkswho don't do this? Who hold religious views independently from any book or any church's directing, derived entirely from the way the balance of evidence looks to them?



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25 Sep 2014, 9:37 pm

tern wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Religious people stick to a book of fairytales regardless of actual physical provable discoveries being made proving certain things in their book incorrect
What about the religious folkswho don't do this? Who hold religious views independently from any book or any church's directing, derived entirely from the way the balance of evidence looks to them?
They would probably believe in this [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC8wWsBKc88[/youtube] :lol:


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26 Sep 2014, 4:53 am

appletheclown wrote:
guzzle wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
Reality is a concept of the observer. what multitudes of observers see altogether gets written down as fact, the fact is not everyone sees it the same. This is were philosophy comes in. When logical minds start to think science seems not know s**t.

Don't be a reptile! Go off your rocker once in a while.


Like is my pupil a black hole? I mean it would have to be one with two events horizons.
The one observed by those looking without the aid of an opticians tool that allows the optician to see more than what the naked eye can see?
My logic for asking the question comes down to the dual wave property.
What if the light splits as it hits the rods and cones inside my eye that possibly serves as seperator?
Doubt if the instruments are available to even measure that without killling me in the process.
Still, I can accept that the wave property of the sunlight that enters my body through my pupil gets absorbed by my nervous system as it is energy.
But what happens to the matter part of the light? I mean, does it come out with all the other crap or maybe it gets expelled as i sneeze.
My maths is useless too
But if emotions are no more than neurochemical variables and everything that we are is defined by our genetic make up why do identical twins have different finger print patterns?

I love reptiles.

What I am saying is that everyone has their own little world or their own mind about things.
People don't see the world the same way and that is that.
No matter how much two people share a love of science or ideas about life they still will disagree on how the world works in at least one way.
I'm not trying to spout idealistic nonsense, I was being serious.


Hmm, not sure how to react here :?
I wasn't being funny with my reply.
That was a glimp into my little world
Long have I pondered as to what happens to light after it enters my pupil?
I mean, light is energy and energy can not be destroyed.
Right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
It's a valid question and no one has convinced me so far it is not.
If science takes wave particle duality as a theoretic fact then theoretically what happens to the matter is what i would like to know. Quantum physics then calls it the duality paradox.
And that's the end of it.
But that doesn't stop me thinking...



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26 Sep 2014, 5:00 am

tern wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Religious people stick to a book of fairytales regardless of actual physical provable discoveries being made proving certain things in their book incorrect
What about the religious folkswho don't do this? Who hold religious views independently from any book or any church's directing, derived entirely from the way the balance of evidence looks to them?


Maybe I'm splitting hairs but religion to me is more about the need to belong to a group with similar beliefs.

AspieOtaku wrote:
They would probably believe in this [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC8wWsBKc88[/youtube] :lol:


Nah, I process written information better.
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26 Sep 2014, 8:43 am

guzzle wrote:

Long have I pondered as to what happens to light after it enters my pupil?
I mean, light is energy and energy can not be destroyed.
Right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
It's a valid question and no one has convinced me so far it is not.
If science takes wave particle duality as a theoretic fact then theoretically what happens to the matter is what i would like to know. Quantum physics then calls it the duality paradox.
And that's the end of it.
But that doesn't stop me thinking...


valid question: what happens to the light energy after it enters the pupil?
answer I found: it is a very small amount of energy and it gets converted to a very small amount of heat which gets carried away by blood flow
http://physics.stackexchange.com/questi ... ers-an-eye

Quote:
There is some heating that takes place, but the amount is pretty trivial, because there just isn't that much light reaching the back of your eye. A back-of-the-envelope sort of estimate would be to say that the light of the Sun reaching the Earth's surface amounts to about a kilowatt of radiation per square meter. Your pupils have a radius of maybe a millimeter, probably much less in bright sunlight. So, if you're staring directly at the Sun (which, hopefully, you're not really doing), you're getting at most a few milliwatts delivered to the back of your eye. That's not going to tax the temperature regulation systems in your body, given that a living human generates about the same heat as a hundred-watt light bulb.