10 Oct 2014, 10:31 pm
luanqibazao
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Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Age: 60
Gender: Male
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Location: Last booth, Akston's Diner
10 Oct 2014, 10:37 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong:
Leftists figure that (some) rightists favor voter ID laws because they (the rightists) want to make voting more difficult for blacks, other minorities, and the very poor, all groups which tend to vote Democratic.
Rightists figure that (some) leftists oppose voter ID laws because they (the leftists) rely on the votes of illegals, misplaced students, and other types of fraud in order to "win" elections. All of those groups are presumably likely to vote Democratic.
From where I stand it looks like both sides are right. It's a draw! 
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,435
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Oct 2014, 11:00 pm
Raptor wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Again, I said I had no problem with transportation being provided, not that it be a requirement.
But when you want to make it a government provided service a requirement is implied. You can't just call any government entity and request a ride to the polls. The task would have to be assigned to an agency to provide or arrange and that would be driven by a requirement.
Quote:
As for voter suppression laws... er, I mean voter fraud laws not really being motivated by racism - considering that a great many of them are enacted within those states that have had long histories of racial discrimination, the charge is hardly far fetched, and is in fact very probable.
For the millionth time this is 2014, not 1964. Outside of a small part of one state you have demonstrated to have very little knowledge of the world beyond. Your sources of information on the outside world are obviously filtered.
Quote:
And no, I don't accuse all conservatives of racism, just those who have had a preexisting history of it.
But what you post illustrates something different. Not to worry, though, because accusations of racism, homophobia, trollery, thuggery, and general asshattery from the left only serve as indicators that we must be doing something right. 
Kraichgauer wrote:
Your obsession with my suggestion that it would be okay if transportation were provided for individuals in need is... interesting... but your turning it into a strawman.
Hardly a strawman or an obsession since that's what you did say you wanted. The only obsession is yours over "voter suppression".
Quote:
And sure, it's 2014, not 1964, but that doesn't mean racism isn't alive and well in some place still, and that career politicians aren't going to use existing racism to keep the opposition from voting.
And until they die off they will be doing what they do which is not as much as you'd like to believe. Quote:
And I don't need to be out of state to realize that that's the case.
If your sources of information are slanted then you don't really know what case is what.
Quote:
Joking or not, racism and homophobia aint anything to brag about.
As a gay black man, which you've bent over backwards to convince me that you are, I'm sure you have more of a vested interest than I.....
I said I thought transportation was a good idea (you know that), but not a necessity..
Thankfully, racists do die, but unfortunately hate is passed onto the next generation, as it has been since time immemorial.
Yes, I am obsessed with righting a wrong as voter suppression. Any and all true blue Americans should be.
And I've been trying to convince you I'm a black man? Really? Really? I thought I was only expressing my white, German American liberal self.
10 Oct 2014, 11:19 pm
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,435
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Oct 2014, 11:55 pm
Jacoby
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash
11 Oct 2014, 12:38 am
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,435
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
11 Oct 2014, 1:05 am
11 Oct 2014, 2:20 am
11 Oct 2014, 6:43 am
luanqibazao wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong:
Leftists figure that (some) rightists favor voter ID laws because they (the rightists) want to make voting more difficult for blacks, other minorities, and the very poor, all groups which tend to vote Democratic.
Rightists figure that (some) leftists oppose voter ID laws because they (the leftists) rely on the votes of illegals, misplaced students, and other types of fraud in order to "win" elections. All of those groups are presumably likely to vote Democratic.
From where I stand it looks like both sides are right. It's a draw!
Leftists figure that (some) rightists favor voter ID laws because they (the rightists) want to make voting more difficult for blacks, other minorities, and the very poor, all groups which tend to vote Democratic.
Rightists figure that (some) leftists oppose voter ID laws because they (the leftists) rely on the votes of illegals, misplaced students, and other types of fraud in order to "win" elections. All of those groups are presumably likely to vote Democratic.
From where I stand it looks like both sides are right. It's a draw!
Except:
There is no evidence that "illegals, misplaced students, and other types of fraud" have any remote impact on voting.
There *is* - however - evidence that voter ID laws makes voting more difficult for blacks, young voters and newly registered voters.
It isn't a draw. It is a knock-out in the first round.
11 Oct 2014, 9:56 am
Raptor wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Again, I said I had no problem with transportation being provided, not that it be a requirement.
But when you want to make it a government provided service a requirement is implied. You can't just call any government entity and request a ride to the polls. The task would have to be assigned to an agency to provide or arrange and that would be driven by a requirement.
Quote:
As for voter suppression laws... er, I mean voter fraud laws not really being motivated by racism - considering that a great many of them are enacted within those states that have had long histories of racial discrimination, the charge is hardly far fetched, and is in fact very probable.
For the millionth time this is 2014, not 1964. Outside of a small part of one state you have demonstrated to have very little knowledge of the world beyond. Your sources of information on the outside world are obviously filtered.
Quote:
And no, I don't accuse all conservatives of racism, just those who have had a preexisting history of it.
But what you post illustrates something different. Not to worry, though, because accusations of racism, homophobia, trollery, thuggery, and general asshattery from the left only serve as indicators that we must be doing something right. Kraichgauer wrote:
Your obsession with my suggestion that it would be okay if transportation were provided for individuals in need is... interesting... but your turning it into a strawman.
Hardly a strawman or an obsession since that's what you did say you wanted. The only obsession is yours over "voter suppression".
Quote:
And sure, it's 2014, not 1964, but that doesn't mean racism isn't alive and well in some place still, and that career politicians aren't going to use existing racism to keep the opposition from voting.
And until they die off they will be doing what they do which is not as much as you'd like to believe. Quote:
And I don't need to be out of state to realize that that's the case.
If your sources of information are slanted then you don't really know what case is what.
Quote:
Joking or not, racism and homophobia aint anything to brag about.
As a gay black man, which you've bent over backwards to convince me that you are, I'm sure you have more of a vested interest than I.....
Kraichgauer wrote:
I said I thought transportation was a good idea (you know that), but not a necessity..
Again, you also said youd like it to be provided at taxpayer expense (want me to go back and find it?). There would have to be some kind of program to fund that at govt expense and to do that there would have to be some kind of requirement to drive it. How much more simple can it be?
Quote:
Thankfully, racists do die, but unfortunately hate is passed onto the next generation, as it has been since time immemorial.
1) Not to the extent that you think
2) You liberals should be grateful for it since it gives you something to rally around
Quote:
Yes, I am obsessed with righting a wrong as voter suppression. Any and all true blue Americans should be.
I would be too if I believed there was voter suppression. I dont think what you term as voter suppression to be a big enough issue to get up on a soapbox over. It might surprise you to hear that I don't think voter fraud is enough of an issue, either.
I pick on this because of the liberal's blatantly selective stand on citizens rights and their insistence that voter ID laws (and damn near everything else you don't like) are driven by racism. If you all want to be douchebags I can be a douchebag, too. The biggest difference is that I actually enjoy engaging in varsity level douchebaggery.
Quote:
And I've been trying to convince you I'm a black man? Really? Really? I thought I was only expressing my white, German American liberal self.
The fact that you dote on racism and homophobia to the over-the-top extend that you do is indicative of a vested interest to the extent that it would leave someone to believe that you are both.
I have a lot of krauts (enough that I can say kraut, jerry, or hun without being discriminatory) in my family tree, too, but I don't see what that has to do with anything.
Jacoby
Veteran
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash
11 Oct 2014, 2:40 pm
GGPViper wrote:
luanqibazao wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong:
Leftists figure that (some) rightists favor voter ID laws because they (the rightists) want to make voting more difficult for blacks, other minorities, and the very poor, all groups which tend to vote Democratic.
Rightists figure that (some) leftists oppose voter ID laws because they (the leftists) rely on the votes of illegals, misplaced students, and other types of fraud in order to "win" elections. All of those groups are presumably likely to vote Democratic.
From where I stand it looks like both sides are right. It's a draw!
Leftists figure that (some) rightists favor voter ID laws because they (the rightists) want to make voting more difficult for blacks, other minorities, and the very poor, all groups which tend to vote Democratic.
Rightists figure that (some) leftists oppose voter ID laws because they (the leftists) rely on the votes of illegals, misplaced students, and other types of fraud in order to "win" elections. All of those groups are presumably likely to vote Democratic.
From where I stand it looks like both sides are right. It's a draw!
Except:
There is no evidence that "illegals, misplaced students, and other types of fraud" have any remote impact on voting.
There *is* - however - evidence that voter ID laws makes voting more difficult for blacks, young voters and newly registered voters.
It isn't a draw. It is a knock-out in the first round.
Pretty much impossible to prove a negative like that. The relevance X amount of people being arrested and convicted of voter fraud to the totality of voter fraud doesn't mean any more than X amount of people were arrested and convicted of possession of meth to everybody that has ever used meth. Do you deny that voter fraud has ever had made a significant impact on elections? Do you believe there is no potential for it to do so? Considering how apt the US is to the legitimacy of elections in other countries, it has very few safeguards of its own. We had a presidential election that was decided by 500 or so votes, every potential fraudulent vote can make an impact.
Maybe you go back to that GAO study but I was thinking about this last night, wouldn't 2% of the white vote be way more total than 5% of the black vote? Maybe they factored that in?
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,435
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
11 Oct 2014, 3:27 pm
Raptor wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Again, I said I had no problem with transportation being provided, not that it be a requirement.
But when you want to make it a government provided service a requirement is implied. You can't just call any government entity and request a ride to the polls. The task would have to be assigned to an agency to provide or arrange and that would be driven by a requirement.
Quote:
As for voter suppression laws... er, I mean voter fraud laws not really being motivated by racism - considering that a great many of them are enacted within those states that have had long histories of racial discrimination, the charge is hardly far fetched, and is in fact very probable.
For the millionth time this is 2014, not 1964. Outside of a small part of one state you have demonstrated to have very little knowledge of the world beyond. Your sources of information on the outside world are obviously filtered.
Quote:
And no, I don't accuse all conservatives of racism, just those who have had a preexisting history of it.
But what you post illustrates something different. Not to worry, though, because accusations of racism, homophobia, trollery, thuggery, and general asshattery from the left only serve as indicators that we must be doing something right. Kraichgauer wrote:
Your obsession with my suggestion that it would be okay if transportation were provided for individuals in need is... interesting... but your turning it into a strawman.
Hardly a strawman or an obsession since that's what you did say you wanted. The only obsession is yours over "voter suppression".
Quote:
And sure, it's 2014, not 1964, but that doesn't mean racism isn't alive and well in some place still, and that career politicians aren't going to use existing racism to keep the opposition from voting.
And until they die off they will be doing what they do which is not as much as you'd like to believe. Quote:
And I don't need to be out of state to realize that that's the case.
If your sources of information are slanted then you don't really know what case is what.
Quote:
Joking or not, racism and homophobia aint anything to brag about.
As a gay black man, which you've bent over backwards to convince me that you are, I'm sure you have more of a vested interest than I.....
Kraichgauer wrote:
I said I thought transportation was a good idea (you know that), but not a necessity..
Again, you also said youd like it to be provided at taxpayer expense (want me to go back and find it?). There would have to be some kind of program to fund that at govt expense and to do that there would have to be some kind of requirement to drive it. How much more simple can it be?
Quote:
Thankfully, racists do die, but unfortunately hate is passed onto the next generation, as it has been since time immemorial.
1) Not to the extent that you think
2) You liberals should be grateful for it since it gives you something to rally around
Quote:
Yes, I am obsessed with righting a wrong as voter suppression. Any and all true blue Americans should be.
I would be too if I believed there was voter suppression. I dont think what you term as voter suppression to be a big enough issue to get up on a soapbox over. It might surprise you to hear that I don't think voter fraud is enough of an issue, either.
I pick on this because of the liberal's blatantly selective stand on citizens rights and their insistence that voter ID laws (and damn near everything else you don't like) are driven by racism. If you all want to be douchebags I can be a douchebag, too. The biggest difference is that I actually enjoy engaging in varsity level douchebaggery.
Quote:
And I've been trying to convince you I'm a black man? Really? Really? I thought I was only expressing my white, German American liberal self.
The fact that you dote on racism and homophobia to the over-the-top extend that you do is indicative of a vested interest to the extent that it would leave someone to believe that you are both.
I have a lot of krauts (enough that I can say kraut, jerry, or hun without being discriminatory) in my family tree, too, but I don't see what that has to do with anything.
You're purposely being obstinate about my support for possible transportation, and claiming I had made statements I had not. I forthwith will no longer answer any more of your statements on this subject, as you just want to score points rather than understand what I was saying.
As for liberals rallying around racism - we wouldn't have to if racism wasn't still a problem.
And as far as me having a vested interest in racism and homophobia - I don't have to be black or gay to support the cause of civil rights. Having been bullied and treated as a schoolyard outcast back in my public school days made me sympathetic to the underdog, whoever they are. On the LGBT issue, I do have friends in that group, and so in that case, I suppose I do have a vested interest.
As for my stating that I'm a German American - I was only demonstrating I am in fact a white guy, never claiming to be an African American.
11 Oct 2014, 7:44 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
You're purposely being obstinate about my support for possible transportation, and claiming I had made statements I had not. I forthwith will no longer answer any more of your statements on this subject, as you just want to score points rather than understand what I was saying.
Oh, that's good; you accusing me of being obstinate.
Well let me show you chapter and verse complete with a link to where you said what you said that substantiates what I'm saying now.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5089276.html
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Sure, but use your old Valiant, your gas, and your time.
I have no problem providing that personal service to others. But still, I have no problem with the government providing that service, as well.
And by the way, I'm appreciative you remember my Valiant.
What we have here is another case of me or someone else running you up a tree and you getting all defensive and hissing like a treed cat. Nothing new at all.......
Quote:
As for liberals rallying around racism - we wouldn't have to if racism wasn't still a problem.
If only it were the problem you make it out to be.Quote:
And as far as me having a vested interest in racism and homophobia - I don't have to be black or gay to support the cause of civil rights. Having been bullied and treated as a schoolyard outcast back in my public school days made me sympathetic to the underdog, whoever they are. On the LGBT issue, I do have friends in that group, and so in that case, I suppose I do have a vested interest.
The underdog?
Many of them are so far above you in the social and economic food chain that they'd have to look down with binoculars to even see you. And if you're going to get up on a soapbox over civil rights then be all-inclusive. Quote:
As for my stating that I'm a German American - I was only demonstrating I am in fact a white guy, never claiming to be an African American.
And I'm an American that feels no need to dote on his ancestry.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,435
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
11 Oct 2014, 9:01 pm
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
You're purposely being obstinate about my support for possible transportation, and claiming I had made statements I had not. I forthwith will no longer answer any more of your statements on this subject, as you just want to score points rather than understand what I was saying.
Oh, that's good; you accusing me of being obstinate.
Well let me show you chapter and verse complete with a link to where you said what you said that substantiates what I'm saying now.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5089276.html
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Sure, but use your old Valiant, your gas, and your time.
I have no problem providing that personal service to others. But still, I have no problem with the government providing that service, as well.
And by the way, I'm appreciative you remember my Valiant.
What we have here is another case of me or someone else running you up a tree and you getting all defensive and hissing like a treed cat. Nothing new at all.......
Quote:
As for liberals rallying around racism - we wouldn't have to if racism wasn't still a problem.
If only it were the problem you make it out to be.Quote:
And as far as me having a vested interest in racism and homophobia - I don't have to be black or gay to support the cause of civil rights. Having been bullied and treated as a schoolyard outcast back in my public school days made me sympathetic to the underdog, whoever they are. On the LGBT issue, I do have friends in that group, and so in that case, I suppose I do have a vested interest.
The underdog?
Many of them are so far above you in the social and economic food chain that they'd have to look down with binoculars to even see you. And if you're going to get up on a soapbox over civil rights then be all-inclusive. Quote:
As for my stating that I'm a German American - I was only demonstrating I am in fact a white guy, never claiming to be an African American.
And I'm an American that feels no need to dote on his ancestry.
I'm still not going to respond to you about possible transportation to the polls.
And yes, racism is still alive. It's not nearly as bad as it once had been, of course, but neither is it close to being eradicated as conservatives like to imagine. It still exists among individuals who still hold bigoted opinions, politicians who use code words about welfare and food stamp recipients when speaking about minorities, and it exists in state governments with that practice voter disenfranchisement.
And even if some victims of racism and homophobia are higher up the social ladder than me, so what? I will sympathize with anyone who is victimized for who they are, even if they happen to have more money or social access than me.
And bragging about my ethnicity? Again, I was only proving a point that I'm a white guy, despite supporting civil rights. You're trying to turn this into a straw man, methinks.
11 Oct 2014, 9:14 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm still not going to respond to you about possible transportation to the polls.
There's not much you could say at this point without digging your hole deeper. Quote:
And yes, racism is still alive. It's not nearly as bad as it once had been, of course, but neither is it close to being eradicated as conservatives like to imagine. It still exists among individuals who still hold bigoted opinions, politicians who use code words about welfare and food stamp recipients when speaking about minorities, and it exists in state governments with that practice voter disenfranchisement.
And the outrage over what little actual racism there is is disproportionate. And what's this about racism and welfare and foodstamps all the time? None of the minorities I know are on the dole. None of them! How can that be?
Quote:
And even if some victims of racism and homophobia are higher up the social ladder than me, so what? I will sympathize with anyone who is victimized for who they are, even if they happen to have more money or social access than me.
Do they empathise equally with you being poor?Quote:
And bragging about my ethnicity? Again, I was only proving a point that I'm a white guy, despite supporting civil rights. You're trying to turn this into a straw man, methinks.
Whatever.....
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,435
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
11 Oct 2014, 9:41 pm
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm still not going to respond to you about possible transportation to the polls.
There's not much you could say at this point without digging your hole deeper. Quote:
And yes, racism is still alive. It's not nearly as bad as it once had been, of course, but neither is it close to being eradicated as conservatives like to imagine. It still exists among individuals who still hold bigoted opinions, politicians who use code words about welfare and food stamp recipients when speaking about minorities, and it exists in state governments with that practice voter disenfranchisement.
And the outrage over what little actual racism there is is disproportionate. And what's this about racism and welfare and foodstamps all the time? None of the minorities I know are on the dole. None of them! How can that be?
Quote:
And even if some victims of racism and homophobia are higher up the social ladder than me, so what? I will sympathize with anyone who is victimized for who they are, even if they happen to have more money or social access than me.
Do they empathise equally with you being poor?Quote:
And bragging about my ethnicity? Again, I was only proving a point that I'm a white guy, despite supporting civil rights. You're trying to turn this into a straw man, methinks.
Whatever..... You're absolutely correct that the numbers of minorities on public assistance is way overblown. But that hasn't stopped conservative politicians from cashing in on ignorant and bigoted whites by playing up on that negative stereotype.
And the LGBT people I personally know have no problem with how my wife and I live. And if some of those persons who have been stepped on for their race or their sexual orientation have class prejudices, there's nothing I can do about that but think they're assh*les, but I'll still sympathize with them for what they've gone through..
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