The Point Of Art

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Define "good" in the context of art.

"good" meaning that someone enjoys it.

But, now I consider that some art might be good that nobody enjoys. The scream is good because it hauntingly conveys a certain state of mind. I don't know that anyone enjoys it.

Last edited by Nebogipfel on 24 May 2015, 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oh. Then "I don't know much about 'Art', but I know what I like" makes perfect sense!

Art appreciation is all subjective, and if I don't like "Crap-On-Canvas", then it isn't Art.

Not an expression - just expression. This is not reductive, it's refinement.

People like to make simple matters unnecessarily complex. Art is expression, expression is art. Anything else you tack onto it is superfluous.

When I create, I'm not contemplating the deeper mysteries of the universe, the inner conflicts inherent to human existence, the distant promises of transcendence or the futility of any endeavour vs the inevitability of entropy - I'm translating my current thoughts into sound, images, symbols in an attempt to capture an idea or thought in my canvas of choice.

If such thoughts or concepts later inspires others to grandiosity or pretentious verbal outpourings, that's on them, not the artist.

Pretentious bullshitting is the most widely practised art form.



You were spot on until the last sentence. Your subjective relationship with a piece of art has no bearing on its existence as art. Value judgements are irrelevant to defining it as art. You can, of course, subjectively define it as "bad art" though.

Let's face facts; there are shallow humans and deep art and all stuff in between the UNIverse of that.

I don't expect you to 'love' in my universe, and I for one refuse to limit mine to yours; or any other limit of life, In regard to mine.

Define it as you will baby; but where I am from folks call me legend for dance of poetry without a word from me.

Actions speak louder than words; always have; always will; in terms of human being; the feeling variety even more...

And ha! You just contadicted your statement to Fnord suggesting that what YOU see as not art is superfluous; that is no less subjective than Fnord's statement in the other direction of crap.

Therefore, you are incorrect on both counts, by the folly of your logic vs much greater complex art...

I wager you will not be able to process that fact...

You don't get to choose the limitations of your reality, only the range of your own delusions.



Yet you continuously self-aggrandise on this forum. One might conclude that you're desperate to impress, but I (perhaps generously?) choose to believe that it's beyond your control.



Nonsense. I was highlighting the duplicitous nature of reality vs perception. If I assert that "chocolate is disgusting", it might be subjectively 'true', but it does not make chocolate universally bad.



It amuses me that you feel it appropriate to exercise smug condescension when you've failed to understand what I said in the first place. I do appreciate that you've made an effort to communicate more effectively this year than you did last, but part of effective communication is comprehension of the other party.

You have described yourself as a poet. Re-examine my first response in this thread, the one you responded to so coarsely. It could almost have been tailor-made for you, though you were not its intended target.

NO, I am not desperate to impress; I do it naturally every day; and that's a fact.

In fact, the volume and number of compliments I get from folks in real life like I'm so excited to meet the dancing legend makes me rather uncomfortable.

The issue with Autism is with the higher functioning type; science is finding now it is an issue of epigenetics for many folks and limiting ways of thinking and not increasing physical intelligence that is the cause of much functional disability, including difficulties with emotional regulation; sensory integration; and cognitive executive functioning, including focus and short term working memory.

Movement therapy is now used to treat theses very symptoms of Autism.

This makes perfect sense, as Eastern philosophies through the martial arts have made men and women into the archetype of 'Superman' many times through history. Bruce Lee is of note in recent history. Jack Lalanne is another who exceeds human potential through will of mind and body in balance exceeding limitations for humans assumed before.

And Art therapy is now used as therapy for Autism; however, strict instructions for art will not work; real emotional expressing art focuses on the expressions of unlimited emotions without mechanical cognition restraints, per the metaphor of paint by numbers.

I bring to the table here that more is possible than some of these folks who sit glued to their computer and never leave the proverbial basement of mom and dad's house may think there is by the idea that Autism is mostly an innate issue rather than a cultural negatively epigenetic produced one of limitations on physical intelligence, which also increases non-verbal intelligence that is the most important type of reciprocal social communication for effective social interaction.

Human beings have the potential for positive Epigenetics in effect and AFFECT in unpacking DNA through environmental challenge, adaptation, and change. Same as the general process of neurooplasticity; however, with epigenetics the results can look like miracles in looking from the outside; instead of understanding the real physical human potential of this in both mind and body balance through neuroplasticity and epigenetics.

Mind and body are the same general 'thing'; receptors for memory in intelligence and emotions are both in body and brain.

To believe that life lives in a computer screen, a lecture, or a book; or a mechanical cognition activity like playing a video game is a cruel way to treat a highly evolved mind and body; when and where finally tuned thrives in the joy of life.

A cat rolling around in the sand in the mid-day sun is 'happier' than most people for this very FACT that the cat has mind and body balance and this certainly is NOT LIMITED to Autism; as half the nation in the US is on some kind of pain medication for chronic pain; much of which is somatic in origin, as indirect or direct results of chronic stress; and associated emotional dis-regulation; sensory dis-integration; out of focus; out of short term working memory potential; and out of mind and body balance to put it in layman's terms.

I know I am incredibly intelligent friend; and am still assessed with off the chart IQ by professionals who help me with my 19 medical disorders during my catastrophic synergy of illness as a shut-in in my home for 5 years.

However, at that time I tell them I am incredibly ret*d, because my emotional intelligence is gone, as compared to before my synergy of catastrophic illnesses. I also stumble when I walk, as my physical intelligence becomes ret*d, as well. At that point I clearly understand that physical and emotional intelligence are much more important than book learning my friend. A person with an IQ of 70 is head and shoulders over me then. And yes, I do have a measured standard IQ of well over 130; graduating 11 out of a class of 381; and then going on with a triple major and three college degrees; and successful upper pay grade eventually with government service, at a quarter of a century there; leadership classes with the county; etc. etc. etc., my friend.

Those doctors could not help me; I cured myself by looking within and finding the innate instinctual and intuitive answers in mind and body balance; and through at least some empirical means of measure through the AQ quiz moving from 44 to 45 to 11 on that scan for Autism; the non-science Aspie Quiz from 195 to 92; and the Emotional Intelligence test from mid 50's to 95 in just the course of a Summer through what even professionals call a religious type miracle; I know this is epigenetics in real time effect and affect; and what the professionals describe as recovery from Autism.

My recovery is in both the art of connecting emotions to language in free verse poetry with no man-made instructions and the physical intelligence of increasing mind and body balance literally to core of abdominal muscles in any direction I walk or dance through ballet and martial arts style dance walk I make up as I go; now for over 3600 miles measured by Nike GPS Sports Watch, everywhere I go in public, with my gorgeous shopaholic wife.

After recovery. I look to science for similar answers and find that science is now finding these same answers to help many folks stuck out of mind and body balance. One quick book of reference on the cutting edge is by a Medical Doctor titled 'The Body Keeps Score'.

The difficulty with further scientific study is it is not considered ethical to do large studies on humans like this; so, much of it is limited to case studies. However the FACT IS it works.

If I did not find these answers; my life will still be stuck in a bedroom all closed-in;

Instead, my life I evidence in human potential for others, and provide a way of understanding this through many avenues of communication; the greatest of which is the nonverbal dance itself that inspires hundreds; if not thousands of folks to participate in this type of dance in my local metro area to increase their own mind and body balance;

Albeit, mostly at the bar I attend with young folks where the hundreds of photos of gorgeous women I supply here for proof for the naysayers, smile ear to ear with me, with the muse of dance I bring to them.

But even so, literally hundreds of people throughout my metro area videotape me and share this new art of dance all around the world for potential of others to try it more, on Facebook; and potentially gain greater mind and body balance in simply the bliss I have by doing this everyday of my life.

Sometimes you have to stand on a desk, my friend; per example of the Dead Poet's society movie to get people's attention first before they will notice anything in life. Particularly, in a day and age where science measures the average attention span of human beings as that of a gold fish.

While my hyperbolic style of communication may not be comfortable for some folks here; it is precisely the pill that works for communication for the novelty seeking crowd of a culture that is always looking for the new thing to do.

And the hyperbolic style of dance is what the young folks, in particular, crave; in a culture of Walmart Walkers who are more or less the Zombie Apocalypse come true. A life spent in head of worries; instead of simple animal homeostasis, in mind and body balance.

And listen up; I over 1.1 million folks view what I do, just on my Google Plus page.

Just 'cause it is not your limited cup of tea my friend; does NOT mean 'Jack' in the much bigger real world.

It's not a place of limitations anymore for folks who can see further than their own illusory limitations.

I have NO limitations my friend. That is why I am the only male in the world on YouTube that is leg
pressing 930LBS, turning 55 on June 6th, with arms raised in the air on a parallel leg press machine, 14 times slowly and surely, which is much more difficult, per bio-mechanical advantage, than the standard vertical leg press sled machine that most leg presses are limited to on the YouTube sources for this.

When I do this the look is HOLY s**t; AND YES, I have the Video to prove that the response in real time is HOLY s**t TOO.

I PROVE what I do, my man, to let other folks know that real life miracles are possible; epigenetics is real in this way; and to put limits on life is to reduce the potential for human potential to become a real Legend and Hero in what I hear from folks in the public on a weekly basis that I humbly appreciate; but still know what I do is far from what folks like Bruce Lee and Jack LaLanne do in life.

But to give myself credit, I did start at age 53, and am only 21 months into what may eventually be MUCH MORE TO COME.

Dont' worry; you'll be informed.

Perhaps you'll hear about it in the news. Winks..

The cynical voices around here are poison to human potential.

I don't like poison; the voices though; not the humans behind the voices.

'Those' I deal with on case-by-case basis, to whatever is required to make MY CASE..

BUT anyway, it is freedom of expression; the greatest freedom of all.

Trust me, you will never deter me at all; you cannot imagine the places
I have been or 'grow' to now, my friend.

Not saying I know yours either, or I want to, for that matter at all; from
the vibes of you, my friend.

But yes; I believe in freedom of expression and will freely die for
that if necessary. So say what you want, and I will casuAlly listen..

my friend....

Yes, what I see as darkness muses me the most, in some ways....

so yes; that makes you MY friend, for sure..

This scene was the main focus of one of my cultural anthro courses for a couple of weeks. It was examined in layers not because it was what the scriptwriters intended to portray all that what we got out of it (scene is used to show that , 'im rich and smarter than you commoners' message and establish the character in the movie)... but because it illustrated almost perfectly the different mentalities brought upon by lifestyle and education differences of economic stratification , the cultural use of social stratification by social action and finally the monetizing of the two previously listed items.

The ' I'm richer/smarter than you' is the first and second point in action. She uses 'high' language while the rest use 'common' language to describe art pieces ('negative space' vs. 'its nice' ) because her education as a wealthy individual gives her access to describe the piece in esoteric terms... and at the same time, the difference in wealth and education are displayed clearly to all participants which establishes her place in the economic pecking order. The monetizing point is when that socio-economic pecking order is used in conjunction with 'high' language to create a group-think perception of an object and through said social display increase the monetary value of the item. A 'commoner' would think that buying a metal cube highly praised by those above him in the pecking order would gain him prestige/acceptance by those above him.... and a wealthy person would purchase it because the group-think gives the piece value which becomes a wise social and economic investment.

Despite the fact that its just... a metal cube.

Reference: "How to Fake an Interest in Art (Edited in this post for brevity and personal POV) ...

1) Look Deeply Into the Artwork

Furrow your eyebrows and stroke your chin. Think of some complex expression or idea after looking deeply into the artwork from every possible angle. This will give everyone around you the impression that you are truly interested in the artist’s work, and that you have tapped into what he/she is trying to convey.

2) Talk About It With Others

Listening to what others have to say is an easy way of learning to use the right words and expressions when you are asked to speak. [Then, all you have to do is paraphrase what's already been said and repeat it to someone else. -Fnord]

3) Demonstrate Your Own Creativity

Say things that are not too critical of what the artist has tried to express. Maintain a balanced view - do not used extreme terms. Move your hands around, as if describing the breadth, depth, and height of the artist's work space. Maintain eye contact with the listener (if possible).

4) Use 'Artsy' Words & Phrases

Learn the basic differences between methods of expression - Cubism is as far removed from Impressionism as Abstract is from Romantic, for example. Know which artistic period is which - An artistic period is a phase in the development of the work of an artist, groups of artists or art movement. They are called "Renaissance", "Neoclassicism", "Romanticism", "Modern", and "Contemporary". Learn the difference between "Primitivism" and "Gothic", as well. Artists themselves go through "periods" as well. If you are viewing an exhibition wherein the artist seems to be featuring nudes, then say something like, "He seems to be expressing his Anatomical Period". If instead the artworks seem to focus on death, then making reference to the artist's "Thanotic Period" might impress others with your understanding of artistic expression, as well as your knowledge of Greek.

5) Sincerity Can Be Faked

The great actor George Burns once said, "Sincerity - if you can fake that, you've got it made.". Try to keep a straight face. If someone challenges your words, don't get into a deep discussion. Keep that brow furrowed, stroke your chin, squint your eyes, and listen. After a minute or so, just say, "Well, I see your point. Thank you." Then walk away. Few things frustrate 'artistes' more than someone who will not argue with them.

NOTE: An 'Artiste' ("arr-TEEST") is an arrogant, smarmy, condescending, narcissistic fool who believes that only he or she knows anything regarding what real art is all about. An 'Artist' ("ARR-tist"), on the other hand, is someone who expresses him- or her-self through dynamic (performance) or static (painting, sculpting, writing, et cetera) media. Recognizing which is which will help keep you from becoming embroiled in conflicts with emo-tistical individuals who would be better off with a shot of Demorol, a straight-jacket, and a padded room.

New research shows epigenetics is the cause of aging.

A stunted life never turns on epigenetic switches, you get autistics that walk funny.

I was until I turned fifteen, bought my first motorcycle, then not only walked much better, my improved motor control lead to me becoming a pool shark.

Use it or lose it is true. We age because unused things switch off to conserve energy, and unless they are reused the switches stay off.

We are a general purpose design, if watching TV, sitting in a classroom, and watching more TV are life, nothing else ever activates. Now they have cancelled recess. Those who play sports develop a different ability.

If we stop having an active life because we are grownups, soon it is hard to get out of the chair and walk to the car.

It does not take long, the biggest killer, retired at 65, dead eighteen months later.

Potential you never used, things you used to do, but stopped, are all available to be turned on and tuned up.

The latest Science, switches turned off rust, decay, and that is why we age. Switches in the on position are regularly repaired by the body.

Just learning to turn the switches on sometime we could live for hundreds of years.

We are like a car that never gets washed or an oil change.

Just because you don't like some specific music, it doesn't stop being music.

Your stance on this reminds me of the indigenous tribe in, https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/11870

I did not say that "Crap-On-Canvas" would no longer be a painting; I just said that it would no longer be art.

Yes, the way that not all novels qualify as literature.

Of course, this brings us beyond "what is the point of art?" to "What is the definition of art?"

humans, by and large, are prisoners of their conceits. I like to believe there are civilizations "out there" who would regard all of this behavior as analogous to how humans would regard the goings-on beneath an upturned rock.