Transgender want YOU to pay for their procedures

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What delusion? last I checked its not a delusional disorder also sex change surgery is not a frankenstein experiment nor butchery, where do you get your information? Also its not a simple mental illness....go take a psychology class or something.

Looking past the simple ignorance, there's actually a valid point here. The final step in gender reassignment is currently purely cosmetic, and can reasonably be called an act of butchery as that which is removed is not completely replaced. Many trans people have not taken this irreversible last step because of this, and will not until the aforementioned transplants are a reality.

Alright I suppose that bit makes sense, I more meant though the entire treatment/surgeries wouldn't be considered butchery it is a legitimate medical practice. But eventually I am sure the medical community will find a way to figure out this last step.

How do you propose to make them happy in their wrong bodies ?

This was my mom's first response.

Mom: "I had to be a man, because I didn't have a man around, so ...." *shrug* ".... you can be one too".

I don't know, the same way I'm supposed to be happy with autism? Some things modern medicine does not understand or have any idea of how to treat, 20 years from now we'll probably be hearing how awful the stuff they're doing right now is, annoying ambulance chasing "transvaginal mesh" commercials forever. The brain is the least understood part of the body, psychiatry has the veneer of medicine but it's mostly pseudoscience. If a "chemical imbalance" is real then how is it measured and how do they know what your proper level of "chemicals" should be? From what I know, the only way for them to measure serotonin or any other chemical in your brain is for them to physically separate it from it and even then they have no idea what level is proper, what they do is observe behavior and make guesses off that. Psycopharmacology can't and shouldn't be trusted, most of the pills are shown to be wholly ineffective and with side effects that often worse than the condition, if it works for some then why not for everybody? Is there any other aspect of medicine like this? It's feel like it has been wholly corrupted by the FDA and Big Pharma pill pushers. If SSRI's can make people snap then what are pumping foreign hormones in these people's brains going do?

The amputation of healthy body parts are a mutilation, trying to craft new "organs" out of them is where it becomes a Frankenstein experiment. You can't change the gender of the the body you were born into, becoming a butchered eunuch won't change that. You are no more the opposite gender than that tiger man was actually a tiger(that guy committed suicide a few years ago unfortunately) If you were born with XY chromosomes then you will die with XY chromosomes, I know sex/gender is more complicated than that but gist of it is true. When I say delusion, I don't mean it in any pejorative way but how can you be born in the wrong body? There are people that literally think they're animals in human form, would you deny that is a delusion?

As humans, we are governed by more than just the laws of nature but we are not immune to them. Some things cannot be changed, some people cannot be "fixed", as humans it is up to us accept everyone and their differences. 20 years from now we might have a better understanding of things and there might be better options, throughout history there has been bad medicine like bloodletting which contributed to George Washington's death for example or ear candling. I'll leave extreme body modification to consenting adults on their own dime.

One theory is that something goes haywire in the womb, and the developing brain does not receive the adequate hormone wash for the chromosomal sex.



Not sure.

Now convicted murderers are demanding that you pay for their surgery, and getting it:

http://www.latimes.com/local/california ... story.html

This is offensive IMO, we don't pay the furries who want to become animals or people who aren't satisfied by their sexual performance. Why should people with gender dysphoria have more rights than the rest of population?

You're right. What you said is pretty offensive. Was this a deliberate troll or are you simply clueless about transgender people (and apparently furries too)?

I'm all for having hormones and stuff like that covered under healthcare, but when it comes to cosmetic surgery I do not agree with that being covered.

Plastic surgery is plastic surgery to me, no matter how you look at it. I'm all for LGBT rights, but I do not agree with paying for a procedure like this.

Psychiatry professor writing for the NYT pours cold water on people trying to increase coverage of transgender procedures, especially for minors:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/opini ... share&_r=0

I took my daughter to see her pediatric endocrinologist today. She's one of the foremost doctors in the country on trans kids and collaborates with other endos, neurologists, geneticists and developmental biologists at the University where she also does research. She was shocked and bothered by how badly Friedman misrepresented or intentionally misinterpreted not only those few studies he mentioned, but how he also flat out ignored thousands of really solid studies spanning twenty years in neurology, endocrinology, genetics and developmental biology.

Here's the simplest way I can put it: Humans are sex dimorphic, though biologically speaking it's really spectra not a binary. We have hundreds, even thousands of sites and attributes which develop into different forms for men and women. In the first trimester, the genitals get a signal to develop one way. Much later, the brain and certain endocrine and skeletal sites get their signal to develop male or female. Sometimes, rarely, they don't develop the in the same direction. The development process is known. The gene expressions have been mapped. The concept of a "female" brain and Self in a body with male genitals is entirely medically sound, although other parts can be mixed, too. And those brain sites include the location of the sense of Self and brain's hardwired, low level map of the body. In addition, in trans people receptors such as the ones that (co-) regulate serotonin often develop opposite the sex assigned at birth. When this happens, the only way to correctly regulate sleep, mood, appetite, thirst, immune, autoimmune systems is with hormone therapy.

The thing about this thread that really amazes and saddens me is that not so very long ago, people on the autistic spectrum were also thought by many to not have legitimate biological or medical causes for how we acted. We were told to "just behave", "try harder" and "not be so selfish" - among the nicer things that were said to us. And now look at us. So quick to jump on some other group we don't understand or don't have enough actual knowledge about, so we decide for them that they are "just pretending" or "choosing to be that way".

We should be ashamed.

Last edited by Edenthiel on 27 Aug 2015, 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Why should we be ashamed of the ignorance of people on a generally poorly-understood subject? That seems a little judgemental to me, and largely unhelpful.

Better to be patient and understanding surely?

Why should we be ashamed? Because someone reading the thread for the first time might easily assume that people on the spectrum have forgotten that we too were historically told that it was a choice, that we were lazy, that we weren't trying hard enough to fit in.

My apologies to anyone who really is open to learning and accepting people who are different. I wasn't seeing a whole lot of that in the thread, you know? And then the most recent message was offering up "proof" that trans people are that way by choice by linking to an op-ed (ie opinion offered with a sheen of authority) that makes unfounded assertions which run contrary to decades of solid medical, biological and sociological findings.

We tend to see a fair amount of that sort of attack from certain quarters. It results in trans children repressing, trans teens getting kicked out of their (conservative Christian) parents' homes as young as 13 or 14, trans teens committing suicide and the murder of trans adults. All because certain groups of people have been intentionally taught to refuse to accept and learn about what trans people really are. Imagine if people on the autistic spectrum were treated that way; would patience and understanding still be the reflexive response in all situations?

Then they'd be guilty of judging a disparate group by the words of a minority of said group. Frankly, I couldn't care less about the opinion of someone who thinks that way. The only person who represents me is me.



And so you're slightly guilty of the kind of thinking I've just disparaged, though to a far lesser extent - and you've at least taken the time to demonstrate that your motivation was essentially based on what I consider to be reasonable morals. Honestly though, we're not going to get anywhere with general attacks on effectively everyone who posted here. I know it's tiresome, but could you instead stick to addressing specific points?



I'm not sure there's a causal link between someone writing an article and trans teens repressing or committing suicide. Such articles are a reflection of a common attitude rather than the cause.



People on the autism spectrum are treated that way, and a written post is hardly a reflexive response. Honestly, if your mindset when posting is emotionally charged, my advice is to wait until such a time as it isn't. Patience and understanding is the only approach that will achieve your goal of spreading understanding. What you first posted can only serve to fuel conflict.