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GGPViper
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07 Apr 2016, 3:01 pm

AspE wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
AspE wrote:
Barchan wrote:

Why should they be proud when every country they've set foot in ended up worse off than before?

There is absolutely nothing righteous about Bush's campaigns in Iraq.

Well, Saddam Hussein is dead. That's something.

Counted among the 461,000 dead as a result of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. That's something, too.

Mostly militants who would have been in ISIS anyway.

Source?



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drlaugh
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13 Apr 2016, 10:50 am

I was raised in an Orthodox home.
My wife was Catholic when we met.
Yes we were the
"Ca-shews"

My sense of humor has roots in my family. It's still a source for material.
Happy early Pesach.

Shalom.


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BaalChatzaf
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13 Apr 2016, 2:29 pm

drlaugh wrote:
I was raised in an Orthodox home.
My wife was Catholic when we met.
Yes we were the
"Ca-shews"

My sense of humor has roots in my family. It's still a source for material.
Happy early Pesach.

Shalom.


Chag sameyach....


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MDD123
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16 Apr 2016, 2:02 am

AspE wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
AspE wrote:
Barchan wrote:

Why should they be proud when every country they've set foot in ended up worse off than before?

There is absolutely nothing righteous about Bush's campaigns in Iraq.

Well, Saddam Hussein is dead. That's something.

Counted among the 461,000 dead as a result of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. That's something, too.

Mostly militants who would have been in ISIS anyway.


I call BS on that, minus the suicide bombers, most of these people were caught in a blast, most people don't choose to get caught in a blast. Nobody chooses to have a car full of young men shoot them to death either. This was going on in spite of our presence. We provided ourselves (the troops) with adequate security so we could finish our 12 months and make it home safely.


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Barchan
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19 Apr 2016, 12:21 am

AspE wrote:


Yes, it's a well known fact that many leaders in ISIS are ex-members of the Republican Guard, Fedayeen Saddam, and other military organizations, violent sadists who enjoy killing almost as much as their American enemies. It's also well known, shown by statistics (and common sense) that majority killed in Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL, for short) were not military, but civilians.

So no. The Iraqi death toll is not "mostly militants who would have been in ISIS anyway."



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Apr 2016, 6:37 am

^^^
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/ ... addam1.jpg


ISIS is Saddam's "ghost" haunting the world again.



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22 Apr 2016, 6:56 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
ISIS is Saddam's "ghost"

I think that's oversimplifying it a bit. While core members of ISIS are Iraqi Saddam-loyalists, foreign money and foreign agendas (mostly American) have been instrumental to the organization's success.



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23 Apr 2016, 3:21 pm

Shabbat Shalom

Zvi Arey.


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24 Apr 2016, 12:46 pm

Barchan wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
ISIS is Saddam's "ghost"

I think that's oversimplifying it a bit. While core members of ISIS are Iraqi Saddam-loyalists, foreign money and foreign agendas (mostly American) have been instrumental to the organization's success.


Could you possibly pass along some proof of your statement?

I've heard people claim Israel is mostly to blame for "their" support. Also Saudi Arabia. Also Iran. Also many others.

What proof do you base your statement of "(mostly American)" on, please?

Also, since you seem informed, could you tell me whether or not the German Nazis had any influence over Jewish/Arab relations during (and after) WWII?



drlaugh
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24 Apr 2016, 1:35 pm

I thought this thread was a Go Jews as in support, not go away.

My brain can't figure out how some threads take left turns.
If course my wife asks me the same question on my speech patterns.


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Jacoby
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24 Apr 2016, 2:02 pm

There is more than enough blame to go around for the rise of ISIS, the Arabs are most responsible because that is where the Wahhabi ideology came from and they are the ones who directly funded militants in Iraq, Libya, and now Syria and Yemen. The Qataris and Saudis in particular share the most blame if we want to be specific in crafting this foreign policy of theirs.

Now, US foreign policy is a lot to blame too with invasion of Iraq and the support of Islamist militants in the civil wars in Libya and Syria. Obviously the US dragged its feet in fighting ISIS, the Arabs and Turks demand that Assad be removed and that no 'Shia Crescent' emerges as the new power broker in the Mideast before confronting ISIS with the Turks being additionally more concerned about the Kurdish territorial ambitions too as obstacle. The Russians came and in and bombed ISIS to the point that the Syrian government was winning back tons of territory, they made much more progress against Islamists that pose a threat to the US than our own government did. The US government is still playing with the idea of arming Islamist militants to 'fight against ISIS', there are parts of the US military that want to literally arm Al-Qaeda against ISIS.

The Iranians and the Shia in general seem like much better allies and representatives of Islams than the Sunni Arabs where all diversity(in religion, in ethnicity, in thought) has been destroyed, they are led by the Ayatollah as opposed to any which imam that specific Sunni finds religiously credible. It actually has more of a church structure, much easier to deal with in my opinion. Iranians are a modern people, if the US did not interfere in their business then I don't understand why we can't at least have a working relationship considering the extremist threat that comes from our so called ally Saudi Arabia. What threat does Iran pose to the US? Absolutely none, they are however an existential threat to the Saudi royal family and most importantly their oil rich lands which I believe mostly are near the Gulf coastwhich is where the bulk of the Shia population lives. We hear so much about how the Iranians are going to push Israel into the sea and maybe they would like us to take care of the problem to their north in Lebanon and Syria as we did in Iraq but again like it is now the real regime that was in danger was the Saudis. They control our foreign policy more than Israel, they piggy back off our sympathy for Israel and manipulate us while making the elites of this country wildly rich at the same time. The Sauds are the true enemy of the United States, they are the enemy of western civilization, Wahhibism is the death of Islam.



Barchan
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24 Apr 2016, 9:12 pm

ZenDen wrote:
What proof do you base your statement of "(mostly American)" on, please?

Well, at this point it's all just speculation. Eventually someone will leak something. Maybe one of Hillary's hard drives will get stolen. But at the moment, it seems to me like America stands to gain the most from ISIS' activities; Syria is Russia's key to the middle east, and the US would pay any price to have Assad gone. Also, escalating Sunni-Shia tensions are a convenient segueway into war with Iran. And as always, there's the oil. ISIS get almost 90% of their funds from selling crude oil, and the US is the world's biggest consumer of petroleum. Just something to think about.

On the other hand, Jacoby makes a strong case for the Saudi-ISIS connection.

ZenDen wrote:
since you seem informed, could you tell me whether or not the German Nazis had any influence over Jewish/Arab relations during (and after) WWII?

I doubt it. Germany supported Iraq in fighting a British occupation, but as far as I know that's as far as the Nazi-Arab connection goes.



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24 Apr 2016, 9:24 pm

Barchan wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
What proof do you base your statement of "(mostly American)" on, please?

Well, at this point it's all just speculation. Eventually someone will leak something. Maybe one of Hillary's hard drives will get stolen. But at the moment, it seems to me like America stands to gain the most from ISIS' activities; Syria is Russia's key to the middle east, and the US would pay any price to have Assad gone. Also, escalating Sunni-Shia tensions are a convenient segueway into war with Iran. And as always, there's the oil. ISIS get almost 90% of their funds from selling crude oil, and the US is the world's biggest consumer of petroleum. Just something to think about.

On the other hand, Jacoby makes a strong case for the Saudi-ISIS connection.

ZenDen wrote:
since you seem informed, could you tell me whether or not the German Nazis had any influence over Jewish/Arab relations during (and after) WWII?

I doubt it. Germany supported Iraq in fighting a British occupation, but as far as I know that's as far as the Nazi-Arab connection goes.


There was a very Pro-Nazi Palestinian group who had sought to make British Palestine "Judenfrei."


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30 Apr 2016, 5:07 pm

Zionist groups worked with the Nazis.


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30 Apr 2016, 5:10 pm

Jacoby wrote:
There is more than enough blame to go around for the rise of ISIS, the Arabs are most responsible because that is where the Wahhabi ideology came from and they are the ones who directly funded militants in Iraq, Libya, and now Syria and Yemen. The Qataris and Saudis in particular share the most blame if we want to be specific in crafting this foreign policy of theirs.

Now, US foreign policy is a lot to blame too with invasion of Iraq and the support of Islamist militants in the civil wars in Libya and Syria. Obviously the US dragged its feet in fighting ISIS, the Arabs and Turks demand that Assad be removed and that no 'Shia Crescent' emerges as the new power broker in the Mideast before confronting ISIS with the Turks being additionally more concerned about the Kurdish territorial ambitions too as obstacle. The Russians came and in and bombed ISIS to the point that the Syrian government was winning back tons of territory, they made much more progress against Islamists that pose a threat to the US than our own government did. The US government is still playing with the idea of arming Islamist militants to 'fight against ISIS', there are parts of the US military that want to literally arm Al-Qaeda against ISIS.

The Iranians and the Shia in general seem like much better allies and representatives of Islams than the Sunni Arabs where all diversity(in religion, in ethnicity, in thought) has been destroyed, they are led by the Ayatollah as opposed to any which imam that specific Sunni finds religiously credible. It actually has more of a church structure, much easier to deal with in my opinion. Iranians are a modern people, if the US did not interfere in their business then I don't understand why we can't at least have a working relationship considering the extremist threat that comes from our so called ally Saudi Arabia. What threat does Iran pose to the US? Absolutely none, they are however an existential threat to the Saudi royal family and most importantly their oil rich lands which I believe mostly are near the Gulf coastwhich is where the bulk of the Shia population lives. We hear so much about how the Iranians are going to push Israel into the sea and maybe they would like us to take care of the problem to their north in Lebanon and Syria as we did in Iraq but again like it is now the real regime that was in danger was the Saudis. They control our foreign policy more than Israel, they piggy back off our sympathy for Israel and manipulate us while making the elites of this country wildly rich at the same time. The Sauds are the true enemy of the United States, they are the enemy of western civilization, Wahhibism is the death of Islam.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOTiuszCl0c


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