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kraftiekortie
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09 Dec 2015, 1:16 am

He might do well in some early primaries. But other candidates will dig up dirt on him, forcing him to drop out early on.

He just might pursue a 3rd party candidacy.



Dox47
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09 Dec 2015, 2:01 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I wouldn't vote for Trump if he was running for Class Clown.


Why not? He'd be a fantastic one.


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09 Dec 2015, 2:35 am

This does not apply to Muslim Citizens.

This is mostly like Europe, where people show up claiming to be Syrians. They have no papers, or a passport produced and sold in Turkey. Even if they are Syrian, there is no way to check who they are, they dodged the draft and have no record of the last four years.

Obama wanted to let Syrians in, the FBI, NSA, said there was no way they could vet these people.

Other Republicans said no, States said no, and due to fake Syrians, Trump said Muslims.

We already have laws on the books that say we do not take people from places where we have conflict, North Korea, North Viet Nam, Iran, Cuba, have all been banned from immigration, education and tourist visas. Cuban business people were not allowed in the USA.

A Cuban passport would not be allowed to board a plane in Mexico bound for the USA. If they showed up at the border they would be turned back, and if they did not have a passport and a visa, Mexico would jail them for two years.

There is nothing new about banning people from conflict zones.

If you ever filled out Government paperwork, they ask if you favor the overthrow of the Government by force or violence. Another question is would you replace the laws? Muslim people, here, in Europe, and world wide say attacks on America for Jihad are reasonable. Sharia law is favored by half the ones that live here. Sahria calls for beheading those who refuse to convert to Islam. Half of those here think it is a good idea. These are the same people who swore they would uphold the Constitution and Laws of the United States. It proves they are liars, but Islam allows for lying to infidels.

Islam is a single system, religion, government, law, army, all in one. Let in the religion, it comes with the rest, and a demand to convert everyone or kill them.

This is not some history like Biblical stoning, Stoning, beheading, hanging homosexuals, is current and main stream in Muslim lands. Muslim lands are also diseased hellholes.

Islam reached a peak in 1300, it has been going downhill since. The Turks managed to conquer the entire Islamic world. The Turk is the ISIS model. Like the Taliban, they are impossible to kill, and the people support them. They are Islamic, we are Infidels, they support their own.

France raided some Mosques, found 335 combat rifles, lots of ammo, bomb making supplies, and how to videos. Mosques are the forts of Islam. It is the castle, the largest building in the community. France only raided three of thousands of Mosques.

This invading army is not compatible with our open western world.

25% of those living here think Jihad in America is justified, half think Sharia law should rule America. They also say they have a religious duty to make us submit to Islam.

If they were Communists, after their prison term they would be deported.



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09 Dec 2015, 4:23 am

GGPViper wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
One thing that would make me care more for Muslims would be if I ever heard of a Muslim PREVENTING terrorism by revealing another Muslim's terrorist plans.

If anyone has evidence of this ever happening please post here.

The result of a few minutes on Google...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_Eldawoody
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mubin_Shaikh

quod erat demonstrandum.

There are likely many more - probably hundreds more worldwide - that we just haven't heard about because (1) they made anonymous notifications to law enforcement and (2) because law enforcement agencies often do not advertise successful preventions of terrorist attacks because they want to protect sensitive intelligence.


With all due respect I point out the exceptional people you use for your examples as being "off target." I was hoping someone would be able to post something that would make me think the "ordinary" Muslim would be interested in destroying this perfidiousness that is so against their religious teachings.

Perhaps, as some have said, their fear overcomes their religion. Would you think this? I prefer to not rely on pure supposition when I can. So stories of: "maybe the police did this" should mean nothing to anyone in this discussion unless there is reason to obscure facts with supposition.



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09 Dec 2015, 4:29 am

Inventor wrote:
We already have laws on the books that say we do not take people from places where we have conflict, North Korea, North Viet Nam, Iran, Cuba, have all been banned from immigration, education and tourist visas. Cuban business people were not allowed in the USA.

A Cuban passport would not be allowed to board a plane in Mexico bound for the USA. If they showed up at the border they would be turned back, and if they did not have a passport and a visa, Mexico would jail them for two years.

There is nothing new about banning people from conflict zones.

Since 1980 (the year after the revolution in Iran), the US has awarded permanent residency status to 288,501 Iranians.
Since 1960 (the year after the revolution in Cuba), the US has awarded permanent residency status to 1,155,385 Cubans
Since 1980 (5 years after the end of the Vietnam war), the US has awarded permanent residency status to 883,334 Vietnamese.

Furthermore, from 2006-2013 (no earlier data), the US has awarded permanent residency status to 235 North Koreans

Source:
2013 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics

I also think that it's fairly safe to assume that the low number of North Koreans is not due to any "ban" from the US, but due to the draconian North Korean emigration policies.

So, yes. There is something new to banning people from conflict zones.



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09 Dec 2015, 4:31 am

pezar wrote:
I no longer wonder how the people of Germany so willingly acquiesced to Hitler. They had been through a war and two bouts of hyperinflation that destroyed their economy and left most of them living on the edge of starvation, taking trains to the countryside and stealing crops from farmers to eat. Many remembered a time when Germany was a rich industrial power, and cities like Berlin were filled with ornate buildings built during better times. Hitler promised to resurrect Germany's economy and make it a great power once again.

In comparison, most Americans have enough to eat or almost enough, certainly people aren't driving to farms and stealing crops at gunpoint. We had a bad financial crash, and inflation, but nowhere near the collapse of the monarchy and the billion percent inflation in Germany. America is a declining power, yes, but we still have some power, we haven't had Russia and China kicking Americans out of their military bases. Germany's colonies were given to Belgium after WW1, an equivalent would be China forcing us to hand over our Pacific bases to them.

Yet we still have people cheering for Trump, who is like Hitler with a few billion dollars in the bank. Even worse, the SAME people who worried about Obama junking the Constitution support Trump doing such things as revoking the birthright citizenship of people born to immigrants and kicking Muslims out of the country, and doing it via executive order. 8O 8O These people would have the firepower necessary to resist a Hitlerian power grab, yet they seem to support it as long as it's "our guy" doing it. :?: :?:

So, maybe it's time to retreat to the woods and try to survive WW3, not that I'm sure that an all out nuclear war would be survivable anyway.


:D :D :D I like your thoughts. If I weren't afraid of being accused of sarcasm, I'd say it would make a great book.



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09 Dec 2015, 4:45 am

DailyPoutine1 wrote:
MonsterCrack wrote:
Trump is a disgusting scumbag bigot, and so are his supporters, what can I say..... As a Muslim, I find his comments disgusting....


"Thou shall not reprimand the blind fool who they believe are doing good. Let them see by themselves the sprouts of their mistakes for whom they believed in."


Now I'm really confused.

Are you saying the "blind fool" is Trump? Because he thinks he's doing good?

Or are you saying the "blind fool" refers to the terrorists? Because their interpretation of the Quran tells the them that killing Westerners must be done?

Or both?



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09 Dec 2015, 4:57 am

Inventor wrote:
This does not apply to Muslim Citizens.

This is mostly like Europe, where people show up claiming to be Syrians. They have no papers, or a passport produced and sold in Turkey. Even if they are Syrian, there is no way to check who they are, they dodged the draft and have no record of the last four years.

Obama wanted to let Syrians in, the FBI, NSA, said there was no way they could vet these people.

Other Republicans said no, States said no, and due to fake Syrians, Trump said Muslims.

We already have laws on the books that say we do not take people from places where we have conflict, North Korea, North Viet Nam, Iran, Cuba, have all been banned from immigration, education and tourist visas. Cuban business people were not allowed in the USA.

A Cuban passport would not be allowed to board a plane in Mexico bound for the USA. If they showed up at the border they would be turned back, and if they did not have a passport and a visa, Mexico would jail them for two years.

There is nothing new about banning people from conflict zones.

If you ever filled out Government paperwork, they ask if you favor the overthrow of the Government by force or violence. Another question is would you replace the laws? Muslim people, here, in Europe, and world wide say attacks on America for Jihad are reasonable. Sharia law is favored by half the ones that live here. Sahria calls for beheading those who refuse to convert to Islam. Half of those here think it is a good idea. These are the same people who swore they would uphold the Constitution and Laws of the United States. It proves they are liars, but Islam allows for lying to infidels.

Islam is a single system, religion, government, law, army, all in one. Let in the religion, it comes with the rest, and a demand to convert everyone or kill them.

This is not some history like Biblical stoning, Stoning, beheading, hanging homosexuals, is current and main stream in Muslim lands. Muslim lands are also diseased hellholes.

Islam reached a peak in 1300, it has been going downhill since. The Turks managed to conquer the entire Islamic world. The Turk is the ISIS model. Like the Taliban, they are impossible to kill, and the people support them. They are Islamic, we are Infidels, they support their own.

France raided some Mosques, found 335 combat rifles, lots of ammo, bomb making supplies, and how to videos. Mosques are the forts of Islam. It is the castle, the largest building in the community. France only raided three of thousands of Mosques.

This invading army is not compatible with our open western world.

25% of those living here think Jihad in America is justified, half think Sharia law should rule America. They also say they have a religious duty to make us submit to Islam.

If they were Communists, after their prison term they would be deported.


Ouch!

But quick Inventor, give us an answer, a direction, a solution. How do we get Muslims to think like us? Will this change through time and generations; what do you think?



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09 Dec 2015, 5:06 am

Dox47 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I wouldn't vote for Trump if he was running for Class Clown.


Why not? He'd be a fantastic one.


Thanks for that guys. I sometimes wondered why people like him. He's in a whole new category of "funny." Kind of an immaterial imaginary TV kind of "funny."

I can just imagine a press meeting where someone asks him how he will satisfy the demands of Russia (or any other country) and Trump replying: "Well I've got the best cook at the White House now and I'll have him bake up some of Vladimir's favorite brownies." This could go on for at least 4 seasons. :D



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09 Dec 2015, 6:38 am

ZenDen wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
One thing that would make me care more for Muslims would be if I ever heard of a Muslim PREVENTING terrorism by revealing another Muslim's terrorist plans.

If anyone has evidence of this ever happening please post here.

The result of a few minutes on Google...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_Eldawoody
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mubin_Shaikh

quod erat demonstrandum.

There are likely many more - probably hundreds more worldwide - that we just haven't heard about because (1) they made anonymous notifications to law enforcement and (2) because law enforcement agencies often do not advertise successful preventions of terrorist attacks because they want to protect sensitive intelligence.

With all due respect I point out the exceptional people you use for your examples as being "off target." I was hoping someone would be able to post something that would make me think the "ordinary" Muslim would be interested in destroying this perfidiousness that is so against their religious teachings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_th ... al_fallacy



Jacoby
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09 Dec 2015, 9:13 am

Immigration should be metered from every country, it should be ordered by those most likely to integrate and to not wildly skew the demographic balance instead of just serving the interest of big business. I am not terribly worried about Muslim immigrants since they're not going to come over our border in any significant number like they are in Europe, the Muslims that do immigrate here are for all intents and purposes are "model minorities" and integrate fairly well doing better than the average American. In Europe however, the Muslim population live in ghettos and makeshift camps. Trump isn't lying when he says there are parts of Britain and France that the authorities are afraid of venturing into, this is a breeding ground for extremism and it is no wonder why such a large percentage of foreign ISIS fighters have EU citizenry(at least 5,000+) They call this place Calais a "jungle", it looks like something you'd see in the Congo or Sudan not France.

No, we should not take a huge amount of refugees. Our president wants like 250,000 next year and Germany will take in over a million just this year, we should not be expect to sustain this. Should we take any with the security threat they may pose? I still would just not in hundreds of thousands or millions. I don't think too many of us are worried about Syrian Christians, atheists, Druze, homosexuals, whatever minority so to deny them would be wrong I think. America is a country built on ideas, it is a nation of immigrants, and just has a fundamentally different character than Europe because anybody can become an American by embracing our values and shared culture whereas a Muslim in Europe will never truly be a Frenchmen or British.

We need to get tough with Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Pakistan who are all supposed to be our greatest allies in the Middle East because all the terrorist filth flows thru them. Perhaps restricting certain mosques/madrasas that preach this radical brand of Islam is something we need to do, the Wahhabi/Salafi brand of Islam should not be tolerated in our country. Russia does something interesting, they have their own government appointed "muftis" who are of course loyal to the country so they kind of usurp the religious authority that these radical imams might claim. Of course that is not all they do to maintain order either... Obviously the US can't constitutionally do the same thing but what of the problem with the radical mosques/madrasas? France has been raiding them since the attacks in Paris and have made hundreds of arrests, found tons of weapons, propaganda materials from ISIS/al-Nusra/al-Qaeda. 3 mosques have been shut down, 324 weapons seized, 2300 homes raided, 230 arrests in this crackdown.

I've known a few conservative Muslims and they're not bad people but it obvious that they're pulled between their faith and their country, I do think Islam is very oppressive towards women no matter what they say about how all the hijabs and customs are for their protection. That might of made sense for Bedouins in 7th century Arabia where marauding raiders might look to kidnap wives and children but it is a tool of male domination and female exclusion now. For all the Muslim men(observant ones) I've talked to, I've never talked to a Muslim woman in my entire life. I lived across the street from Palestinian family and never once did I see let alone speak to any female member of their family, now I know that is cultural but it's not American.

First, Turkey should be ejected out of NATO and told that it will never join the EU. Second, the US and Russia should work together to found a real Kurdish state but the question is can this be done without sparking a bigger war? Kurdistan would include land in Turkey, Iraq, Syria, and Iran so can Russia and the US convince Turkey and Iran to give up their parts? Perhaps Iran can be reasoned with who doesn't persecute the Kurds nearly to the same degree as their neighbors, Turkey not so much given the prevalence of ultra-nationalism in the country. I think if the US and Russia worked together along with the UK and France that the writing would be on the wall for them but who knows. Third, we need to make an ultimatum to these rich Arab Gulf countries to either take care of the refugees that are fleeing a civil war they funded or to be lost to us as an ally, you should not be able to build radical mosques in our countries then create a humanitarian crisis by funding ISIS and demand we let these refugees in. We're not stupid right? These people are not our friends, they are not our allies, they do not have the same interests as you or I do. We need to stop making strategic partnerships with countries that hate and want to destroy us. Fourth, there needs to be more liberal brands of Islam promoted in western countries(and all over the world) and the only way that can happen is if they are safe to develop free of the radicals who would kill them for even questioning their teachings.

spitballing some ideas



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09 Dec 2015, 10:03 am

pezar wrote:
I no longer wonder how the people of Germany so willingly acquiesced to Hitler. They had been through a war and two bouts of hyperinflation that destroyed their economy and left most of them living on the edge of starvation, taking trains to the countryside and stealing crops from farmers to eat. Many remembered a time when Germany was a rich industrial power, and cities like Berlin were filled with ornate buildings built during better times. Hitler promised to resurrect Germany's economy and make it a great power once again.

In comparison, most Americans have enough to eat or almost enough, certainly people aren't driving to farms and stealing crops at gunpoint. We had a bad financial crash, and inflation, but nowhere near the collapse of the monarchy and the billion percent inflation in Germany. America is a declining power, yes, but we still have some power, we haven't had Russia and China kicking Americans out of their military bases. Germany's colonies were given to Belgium after WW1, an equivalent would be China forcing us to hand over our Pacific bases to them.

Yet we still have people cheering for Trump, who is like Hitler with a few billion dollars in the bank. Even worse, the SAME people who worried about Obama junking the Constitution support Trump doing such things as revoking the birthright citizenship of people born to immigrants and kicking Muslims out of the country, and doing it via executive order. 8O 8O These people would have the firepower necessary to resist a Hitlerian power grab, yet they seem to support it as long as it's "our guy" doing it. :?: :?:

So, maybe it's time to retreat to the woods and try to survive WW3, not that I'm sure that an all out nuclear war would be survivable anyway.


"Those who can't remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
-George Santayana


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ZenDen
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09 Dec 2015, 1:06 pm

GGPViper wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
One thing that would make me care more for Muslims would be if I ever heard of a Muslim PREVENTING terrorism by revealing another Muslim's terrorist plans.

If anyone has evidence of this ever happening please post here.

The result of a few minutes on Google...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_Eldawoody
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mubin_Shaikh

quod erat demonstrandum.

There are likely many more - probably hundreds more worldwide - that we just haven't heard about because (1) they made anonymous notifications to law enforcement and (2) because law enforcement agencies often do not advertise successful preventions of terrorist attacks because they want to protect sensitive intelligence.

With all due respect I point out the exceptional people you use for your examples as being "off target." I was hoping someone would be able to post something that would make me think the "ordinary" Muslim would be interested in destroying this perfidiousness that is so against their religious teachings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_th ... al_fallacy


:oops: You are certainly correct. I said "a Muslim" which, in anyone's dictionary, translates to "any" Muslim, and I apologize.

But so there are no misunderstandings: I did NOT mean: Paid experts, authors working on material for a book, etc., just upright engaged Muslims who are upset and outraged over terrorist killings.....there must be thousands of them who would be happy for the opportunity to nip these killings in the bud and speak their mind...but maybe there aren't.

It begins to appear that average Muslims respect and defend their, and other believer's, right to interpret the Quran in bloody methods. And they respect this right more than the rights of the people killed. Is this because to them we're only infidels?



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09 Dec 2015, 1:18 pm

There's been some speculation that Trump is intentionally trying to sabotage his own campaign because he never really intended on going the distance, and doesn't want to drop out while he's polling so well. Little did he know there are so many idiots in this country. I think he could probably drop kick a puppy down a flight of stairs and rise in the polls. Scary!


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09 Dec 2015, 1:26 pm

^^^ Yeah, he was actually pretty chummy with the Clintons at one time too.

Having a dummy candidate run to throw off elections is actually a dirty trick pioneered by Lee Atwater...

Maybe Trump is actually helping Hilary? :twisted:


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09 Dec 2015, 1:27 pm

PhoenixFalcon wrote:
pezar wrote:
I no longer wonder how the people of Germany so willingly acquiesced to Hitler. They had been through a war and two bouts of hyperinflation that destroyed their economy and left most of them living on the edge of starvation, taking trains to the countryside and stealing crops from farmers to eat. Many remembered a time when Germany was a rich industrial power, and cities like Berlin were filled with ornate buildings built during better times. Hitler promised to resurrect Germany's economy and make it a great power once again.

In comparison, most Americans have enough to eat or almost enough, certainly people aren't driving to farms and stealing crops at gunpoint. We had a bad financial crash, and inflation, but nowhere near the collapse of the monarchy and the billion percent inflation in Germany. America is a declining power, yes, but we still have some power, we haven't had Russia and China kicking Americans out of their military bases. Germany's colonies were given to Belgium after WW1, an equivalent would be China forcing us to hand over our Pacific bases to them.

Yet we still have people cheering for Trump, who is like Hitler with a few billion dollars in the bank. Even worse, the SAME people who worried about Obama junking the Constitution support Trump doing such things as revoking the birthright citizenship of people born to immigrants and kicking Muslims out of the country, and doing it via executive order. 8O 8O These people would have the firepower necessary to resist a Hitlerian power grab, yet they seem to support it as long as it's "our guy" doing it. :?: :?:

So, maybe it's time to retreat to the woods and try to survive WW3, not that I'm sure that an all out nuclear war would be survivable anyway.


"Those who can't remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
-George Santayana


That's a great quote. One advantage/disadvantage of growing old is you remember past history differently than if you're just reading someone's biased view in a book or article.

For example, when I hear of the border crossings inspections and restrictions (between Israel and Palestine) it upsets me the impoverished Palestinians have to be so "put upon", but then I think back to less restrictive days when Palestinian killers used their relatively unrestricted passage into Israel to transport bomb making materials....to kill Israeli families and friends enjoying a cup in a local coffee house.

So do I support the present highly restrictive situation????? But, oddly enough, you can read many stories about how hard inspections and restrictions make life for the average Palestinians but they never seem to mention the reasons that make this necessary.

And Muslims around the world are upset that Trump doesn't trust them and this makes life hard for the average Muslim family in this country, but they NEVER tell you they have religious laws which may be preventing them from stopping the next terrorist killings.