If there was really a God, bad things wouldn't happen.

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smudge
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31 Dec 2016, 2:47 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

I understand, and I was meaning (at least partly) to offer a PPR survival tip to newbie Yo El!

I see.

If I were to add something here on an ecumenical note:

I think most of the frustration that pantheists, pagans, wiccans, Hermetics, or anyone else tend to feel about the Abrahamic religions is the strong sense - based on experience, and with some of us many reads through the bible - that we're all praying to the same God in different ways, just that certain public doctrines and dogmas are interpreted in such a manner as to cleave nature in arbitrary ways and create us vs. them narratives that are by and large built on misinformation.

I think of it more as being a big intelligence, or massive energy, and numerous spirits (energies) around, some of which are more powerful than others. Some people may worship one or more of them thinking of them as the creator. One thing I do find in the spirit world is our ability (or supposed?) to be able to tell between the good and bad spirits by the feel of them and our intuition. How do we know we can trust them by how they make us feel? The emotions we get and the images are very clear, but we don't know that they're not just pretending to be there for us. They might actually be leading us on onto the wrong paths, while giving us that "good" vibe or making good things happen temporarily. They could get something out of us that we don't see them take.

Some people say all the energies are interlinked. Though I've spoken to some people who have had experiences that helped them see everything is interlinked, I haven't actually experiened that. I'm not saying it doesn't exist or that I have reason to believe it doesn't.

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Yo El
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31 Dec 2016, 2:48 pm

Yo El wrote:

Every bad thing that happens in this world roots back into the core problem called sin.

What about cycle cell anemia? Poisonous snakes? Natural disasters?

From a biblical standpoint, yes. But I was aiming at other problems like war and hunger, I should've been more specific.

smudge
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31 Dec 2016, 2:49 pm

BaalChatzaf wrote:

The fact that evil exists clearly proves one of the following:

1. God is powerless to prevent Evil
2. God is malicious and dislikes us.
3. God does not exist.

You might want to read some of the posts defining evil before coming to such a conclusion. Nothing is that simplistic.

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Yo El
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31 Dec 2016, 2:52 pm

smudge wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

I understand, and I was meaning (at least partly) to offer a PPR survival tip to newbie Yo El!

I think you can tell the difference by their fruits.

leejosepho
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31 Dec 2016, 6:51 pm

Yo El wrote:

I think you can tell the difference by their fruits.

Are you thinking/speaking of people or of...

smudge wrote:

...a big intelligence, or massive energy, and numerous spirits (energies) around...

Some people say all the energies are interlinked...

??

Either way, however, only the choir will agree as to what is meant by good or bad fruits.

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leejosepho
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31 Dec 2016, 6:59 pm

smudge wrote:

BaalChatzaf wrote:

The fact that evil exists clearly proves one of the following:

1. God is powerless to prevent Evil
2. God is malicious and dislikes us.
3. God does not exist.

You might want to read some of the posts defining evil before coming to such a conclusion. Nothing is that simplistic.

Yes, and the fact evil is not being prevented does not mean it cannot be prevented. Rather, evil could only be prevented by "good" being forced upon and from everyone...and I believe that also covers 2 and 3. And further, God would not have to enjoy seeing someone self-destruct while ruining the lives of others (such as I was doing during my worst days many years ago) in order to love us enough to nevertheless let us do as we please.

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BeggingTurtle
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01 Jan 2017, 12:58 am

Would a good and loving God allow you to be a better person and have a better life if you suffer? Islam and Christianity think so.
He may be all powerful, but He does not defy free will, and people are pretty messed up as it is.

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BeggingTurtle
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01 Jan 2017, 1:03 am

leejosepho wrote:

smudge wrote:

BaalChatzaf wrote:

The fact that evil exists clearly proves one of the following:

1. God is powerless to prevent Evil
2. God is malicious and dislikes us.
3. God does not exist.

You might want to read some of the posts defining evil before coming to such a conclusion. Nothing is that simplistic.

I want to build on these points. If God is powerful enough to stop evil, how come terrible hellish physical tortures are not incurred upon you, someone who is clearly able to type? This only disproves the second point as well.
The third, I can argue that God does not "exist". If God is infinite and all-powerful, why should He conform to the pitiful definition of "existence" as humans defined? He would surely be above the definition, therefore God can only exist by not existing.

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Yo El
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01 Jan 2017, 4:43 am

leejosepho wrote:

Are you thinking/speaking of people or of...

Yes, you can't know if a spirit is good or bad by the way it feels or your intuition. However, you see the difference in the way a person behaves and speak (their fruits). For instance, if someone has been a pretty aggresive and nasty person for quitte some time and he suddenly became friendly, caring, and patient.

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01 Jan 2017, 8:47 am

BeggingTurtle wrote:

I can argue that God does not "exist". If God is infinite and all-powerful, why should He conform to the pitiful definition of "existence" as humans defined? He would surely be above the definition, therefore God can only exist by not existing.

I would prefer saying He is beyond existence rather than above it -- sovereignty is a separate matter -- and I would certainly agree in saying we have only the evidence of his works (all that actually does exist) to seem to prove He is apparently beyond existence.

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Robert312
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01 Jan 2017, 10:27 am

Yo El wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

Are you thinking/speaking of people or of...

I knew Christians who were rude sand nasty. I lost of few Facebook friends who were that way. They must have thought they were worshiping the Christian god but were really worshiping an evil god without knowing it.

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Yo El
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01 Jan 2017, 1:42 pm

Robert312 wrote:

I think many people claim to be Christians. I think the word 'Christian' is used way to loosely these days. A Christian is someone who represents Jesus Christ in some way, shape or form. In the end of the day you can see the difference between the real Christians and those who claim to be Christians by the fruits they produce.

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01 Jan 2017, 11:11 pm

Yo El wrote:

I think the word 'Christian' is used way to loosely these days. A Christian is someone who represents Jesus Christ in some way, shape or form...

If I have heard correctly, the term "Christian" was first coined and used to refer to the Messiah's followers or "taught ones" in derogatory ways...and then Peter later told them to not shy away from it...

Quote:

"...if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf." I Peter 4:16

Peter purposely uses the name [Christian] which was a name of derision among the heathens...[such as] the insolent scorn with which a brutal justice would have used the word “Methodist” a century ago...

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_peter/4-16.htm

Today, however, I believe there are many people wrongfully wearing "Christian" as some kind of chest-inflating badge rather than just silently doing what had first been taught...

Quote:

"Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." James 1:27

If more people would just do that, a thread such as this might be entitled more like "Do all these good things happening mean there might really be a god?"

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lostonearth35
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16 Jan 2017, 1:10 pm

Why would a perfect god make human beings and so many other things in the world so imperfect? Why would I want to believe in a god who made us so physically and mentally flawed - on purpose? This is also the same god that is supposed to be so good who created germs and disease and earthquakes and hurricanes and and volcanic eruptions and mosquitoes.

Of course, in heaven everything and everyone is supposed to be completely perfect. Too bad you have to die to go there. :roll:

leejosepho
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16 Jan 2017, 4:59 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:

Why would a perfect god make human beings and so many other things in the world so imperfect?

Who says and can prove He/She/It did?

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BaalChatzaf
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16 Jan 2017, 11:49 pm

smudge wrote:

I disgree with this. I don't think the concept of right and wrong is valid in nature. I don't believe that a creator would necessarily believe in right and wrong, why would they? What if it's an entity that creates and destroys...or creates things and lets them destroy themselves...without any purpose behind it? Just because it wants to.

Nature to me seems to be all about creation and destruction, but ultimately renewal and change.

What does everybody else think of the idea that there could be a God, or some massive intelligence that's in control of, and links everything...that just *is*? No right or wrong about it, it just exists.

God was used up once he finished creating the cosmos. Now Entropy is in charge.

I don't think God loves us anyway. I think the human race was an unintended side effect of what ever it was that God was doing.

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