Why Christianity is so Persistant

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It is completely fair for God to do this because they still made the choice and the sin still marks their soul for doing so. This choice may be predicted but still they are an evil person for going down that path. The fact that the choice was created by other conditions does not forgive the person for their flaws that led to this choice. They have to go to hell because they rejected God and are tainted in that regard.

The predetermination does not look like free will if you know everything but people don't know everything. They make every choice of their own accord based on their own ideas and beliefs. It is just that everything before the choice is made is known and therefore their choice is known as well. There is only one outcome because individuals will always pick that one outcome. No matter how many times the same circumstances are repeated the choice made is always exactly the same. Free will means that people get to choose their outcome and in Divine predetermination they always do choose.

Let me put it this way: If you are offered a choice between a Big Mac and a salad and you pick the Big Mac because you really love Big Macs then it was still your choice to pick that Big Mac, no force made you choose that your own desire for Big Macs caused this to happen. Now, if you keep on turning down the salad and opting for the Big Mac because you really don't like salads then you are still choosing Big Macs because you want the Big Mac. Now, if you end up really fat because you ate all of the Big Macs then it is still your fault even though it is a causal chain of events, isn't it? I mean, you chose to eat all of those Big Macs even though it was predictable based on your nature. Besides, if you weren't to be blamed then you might be more tempted to eat more Big Macs and get even fatter because you feel justified in defying your health needs due to the fact that you blame nature and feel that there is less moral penalty for your action. The individual makes the choice and is bound to it, even though the choice could be predicted by all-knowing forces the individual still feels that he made this choice and their nature was still the deciding factor.

I believe what people are arguing here for is the illusion of free will. It is logically impossible that one can have free will and the outcome be predetermined. For example, if there is some Diety that knows everything that will happen in the future, we can imaging this Diety's thoughts being like a movie or film. Now imagine this film being stored in a vault somewhere. There is nothing that you can do to deviate from this film, thus every 'choice' you make must adhere to the 'script' so to say.

If you believe that you can have free will and a predetermined outcome, then every time you watch a movie, you believe that the character can 'choose' what he is going to do. So, if you watch say, Batman for the hundredth time, you will believe that the outcome can still be different. Nonsense! But, this is exactly what predetermination is. It is believing that your life is already a movie in a Diety's vault, and this Diety has watched your film over and over, yet you still believe that you can change the outcome of the film. Just because you don't know the outcome, and have never seen the film, doesn't mean you are making choices towards the outcome, you are simply having the illusion of free will, because in reality, all your choices have already been made. And, illusion of free will is not free will, it is simply an ignorance of the outcome, not a freedom of choice. If you deviate from the script, then there is no predetermination. If you say that the script has not been written yet, then there is also no predetermination.

If you are arguing that a unique mind can make choices and an omniscent Diety could predict those choices, yet the individual still has free will, then you are simply misusing the word prediction. Instead, you are saying that a Diety would guess the outcome. If one guesses the outcome, then there is room for free will. But, if one predicts the outcome, then the outcome has already been decided. I cannot predict the outcome, and then leave it to free will to be decided, because it has already been decided. But, I can guess the outcome and perhaps be proven right. Prediction leaves no room for freedom, but guessing does. I am using the word prediction here in a deterministic sense, as it is possible to interchange prediction with guessing, but not in a omniscent sense. In an omniscent sense, predict means certain, otherwise you are guessing.

This is a standard philosophical argument in Religious Philosophy, and no philosopher has been able to reconcile free will with predetermination. It is logically impossible. Ultimately, the only recourse one has is to cite Keirkegarrd, and say that a leap of faith is necessary because religion cannot be reconciled logically. If you are clinging to the belief that free will and predetermination are logically compatible, you are simply misunderstanding the issues involved. The only way to reconcile the two is with faith, not logic. No one ever came about to believe in the compatibility of free will and predetermination through logic. It was always faith first in God, then trying to logically justify your faith. This is where the problems arise because I don't think that one can logically justify faith, because that automatically negates faith. One must simply say, "I believe in free will and predetermination", and leave it at that. That is not contradictory because it is based on faith. The second one goes one step further and tries to justify faith with logic, you have already refuted yourself.

(Edited)

What an awful username you have. No wonder where you're going to end up when you die. I actually have no pity for you. You better not ever talk about Christianty like that. Christianity is the only way to heaven and not any one of these other so called religions will ever get you there. They're all cults to me. I'm a Christian and you better watch out what you say about it. No I'm not going to pick a fight with you. No not at all. Why would I care to pick a fight with you?
No offense to anyone else. I'm really strong in what I believe and I'm used to being fussed at by many people on all sorts of forums that I've been on about this issue. I'll not speak of it again to you I mean. Have a nice day.

<cough cough>

Which means?

Let me make it a little clearer for you.



At least you managed the 'INTERESTING' bit; your post had a high amusement factor.

Oh whatever. I'm just going to ignore you for the rest of time being. Have your laughs. I'll just have to stop my self from hunting you down. Take care.

NO personal attacks or threats!

Lets keep it civil people.

Wasn't trying to.

I believe that Jesus bore all our sins and died on the cross to save us and give us eternal life. Apart from the fact Jesus was a real historical figure who writers of the time could testify to, Christianity and the Church has gone strong for two thousand and six years and counting because it's the truth. There are many cults, but they are false teachers and transient.

I also believe that each and every word of the Bible is true.

About cults and false teachers, the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and Scientologists all tried to ensnare me. I had always been searching for the truth and as a Christian I have now found it, I have found something really durable. It hasn't always been an easy road but I believe in where I'm going.

A little about how I see Christianity's relevance to AS. I'm excited about the fact that God made us all unique individuals, and knew us before we were born. He made some of us as Aspies and I believe that is a blessing, and that we are a blessing to society. Society has strayed somewhat from its Christian roots especially in countries like the UK but nevertheless God is revealing more and more to us and we are discovering more and more about the world we live in. And AS is of course a recent discovery.

God gives us all special unique personal gifts. I can tell you right now that as Aspies, with special focused interests and areas of talent, our gifts are particularly strong and are particular blessings.

And yes I believe God has a unique plan for all of us, which is an area where predestination comes in. As long as we listen to God, he'll fulfil a good plan for us and keep us on the right track. I wondered what his plan and purpose was for me and now I know. Now that I've found out about AS and HFA and that I have AS or HFA, his plan is for me to raise awareness of AS/HFA/LFA.

Thank you Keeno. I thought I was fighting a losing battle alone.

Only too happy to help, and from what I've seen so far I think this board needs me and you around huh?

Yeah that's for sure.

it's not the religion that's persistant...it's the sheep that are intent on following.

which is why i love the whole shepherd over the flock analogy with christians....cause they are sheep (as well as muslims, buddhists, scientologists, and anyone else who believes in a deity).

/equal oppertunity offender
//i'm gonna rot in hell anyways and be butt-raped, right?
///peace to everyone no matter if you like to play pretend or not.

I don't really understand how you could place Christianty with the other worldly religions. Christianty is not in the same listings. All the rest are just cults. They aren't going to get you anywhere. I piety you.

How do you realy know which one is truely right maybe one of these "cults" is or mayby Norse Mythology got it right. Chistianity has a bible the other relegions have scared texted too why does one have to be the only right one?