Opinions on abortion?

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In good faith I will try again. Pretend the year is 1960 and someone comes along and says "Don't like marital rape? Don't commit it!" It's not a crime in the 60s... is the slogan valid?

I do see it as murder, but I also have nothing against abortion. Better for both parties tbh.

I have no issue with abortion. Parasites have no inherent right to the host's body. End of discussion.

I would insist the majority of pro-choicers I've encountered fall into that category. They'd prefer abortion be as rare as possible, they may prefer restrictions on it, but they ultimately support it in some instances and feel it's the decision of the person requesting it and/or their doctor.

Personally I have no concerns over how common it is and feel it's entirely at the person who's requesting it's discretion. The only restriction I can morally condone is that doctors who aren't comfortable with performing the procedure can't be forced to perform them, whether that's unconditional (they're anti-choicers) or conditional (feel it's too risky to the person having the procedure done, or have moral qualms about how far along the pregnancy has progressed). The way I define the two terms this would make me strictly 'pro-choice' and not 'pro-choice, but also pro-life').

I can think of no instance in which it should be legal, not even in cases of rape. The baby shouldn't have to die because of the sin of its father.

Some people are getting heated about this.
This is meant to be about your own personal opinion, not what the law should be or anything.
Please keep the conversation civil.

Yeah thats sort of the way I see it, but at the same time the woman shouldn't have to suffer because of the fathers sin, so it should be her choice.
I personally feel it is better to just give the child for adoption.

It's nonsense to believe that a fetus is a "parasite." Very technically, I guess, it is one. But morally, it's not. It's a growing person.

Yes, I believe vasectomies can be sensible, and probably should be done under certain circumstances

But to mandate them would be wrong, just like it would be wrong to mandate that women take birth control pills.

Not a fan of abortion and am rather pro-life, however politically I am a libertarian and shouldn't forbid someone from aborting a fetus.

Well it is different than killing a new-born as the vast majority of abortions occur before the fertilized egg even develops into a fetus let alone a baby. I would take issue if late term abortions were the norm and encouraged, but that is more something that happens if its a medical emergency. I can certainly agree with a limit on how long one can weight to get an abortion outside of the medical emergencies but most places already have that.

Also pregnancy is a health risk in itself, sure maybe not as much as 100 years ago but it does have risks of its own, its still possible to die from childbirth, not to mention that is 9 months with rather compromised health and limited mobility...not everyone has 9 months to spare for that or is willing to take the health risk.

I guess mostly though I feel it should be a personal choice...I don't think it matters how I personally feel about it whether I agree or disagree with it when it comes to other people making that choice. I myself would likely get an abortion ASAP if I found I was pregnant.

But the women should have to suffer carrying it for nine months? regardless of any risks to her physical and mental health? I mean if she chooses to that is one thing, but forcing that on someone who just wants to terminate it and be done with it is sick. Also it takes quite a while for it to turn into a baby...starts out as a fertilized egg, than a clump of cells, than an embroyo eventually that turns into a fetus and than the fetus eventually develops into a baby, seems some people don't even understand basic biology.

Either way the women is already alive with feelings and thoughts, a cell clump/embryo may or may not actually go on to develop into a baby and it doesn't have any thoughts/feelings...so it should be her choice if she wants to keep it or not.

It's technically not (after all, they are the same species as the host), however it's still an accurate description of the relationship. If someone (even another actual person, not a mere potential future person) needs to occupy your flesh to continue living, they live at your discretion. Period.

False equivalency. Terminating an unwanted pregnancy doesn't violate any person's rights. Forcing a person to remain pregnant against their will most certainly does. Someone who is carrying and wishes to terminate has every right to pursue that course of action, regardless of the law (although if it's illegal, or if they are unable to find a medical professional to assist, they're not entitled to force another person to assist, as that would violate that person's rights).

Forced pregnancy is actually a much closer moral analog to rape than terminating an unwanted (or unsafe) pregnancy does. Both involve a person's body being used against their will and interests.

As an aside, being forced to carry a rapists offspring against one's will is essentially drawing the violation of their person out for the entire duration of the pregnancy.

Nnnnnnn. Most objections to abortion are driven by religious faith - they say the fetus is a sacred human life, and abortion is murder and therefore wrong. (Mind you, Mikah, I'm not saying this is your line of reasoning.)

I object to someone else's religious views being made law over others who don't share them. We as a society, and in fact most modern human societies, agree that murder is wrong. This belief transcends many faiths, and even we atheists tend to think killing other people is highly unethical in most cases.

One of my precise problems with any attempt to make law out of the Judaeo-Christian Bible is that it says jack about things like marital rape. In fact, if we're going to make that abysmal book the law of the land, there will be far worse than marital rape going on.

The Christian belief system terrifies me. Please keep your Jesus off my fetus.

I knew the marital rape example would hit a nerve. You are overcomplicating it funeralxempire, these are acts are subject to moral and legal debates. Using that slogan now is exactly like me using it to dismiss the argument about marital rape a few decades ago.



It's not, while I'm certainly on the road that takes young men from childish atheism to the stern theism of old men, I never cite scripture or religious teachings for this argument. If you're really interested in my arguments, which are more often than not take downs of existing pro-abortion arguments, then these are the threads:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=215207&start=45#p6848061
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=299818&start=30#p6889739
My views refine (but not radically) over the course of the threads, so its still worth having debates on this issue, I just don't have the energy for another one so soon.

A more recent thread (my fault for derailing with one of my rants that time) looked like it was getting interesting, an argument was put forward about the "assumed desire to continue living" which I found compelling, but a coherent, satisfying position was not found in the end.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=353165

It's really not though, it might appear to be if you're insistent on pretending that's the case, but that doesn't actually make it so. Then again, you're welcome to insist a potato is a fruit and that the definition of a fruit which excludes tubers is over-complicating things, but you won't be correct there either.