Child Abuse Is Not Funny

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AngelRho is the one I'm referring to, not B19. B19 was just the one to respond to the complaint.

I think that for a long time physical “correction” was the norm. The notion of “spare the rod, spoil the child” was commonplace. The extreme fundamentalist family, the Duggars, uses a literal rod. I’m not sure how they were able to completely shut off their brains to do so, but they did.

Anyway, (apart from fundamentalist craziness) parents typically have a lot more resources these days. We know a lot more about child development which helps as far as it keeps us from having unrealistic expectations in the first place. My grandmother complained when my child who recently turned 2 at the time wouldn’t share. She said, “Why can’t he share?!”

“Umm...because he’s 2.”

This type of knowledge along with parenting books and helpful, down-to-earth pediatricians can be great resources for parents who want to stop that potentially damaging pattern of corporal punishment.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 02 Jan 2020, 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hitting a child is illegal where I live ("spanking" included). Anybody doing it in public would have other adults intervene and also call the police.

I'd like to clarify a point for those who live in countries with different laws: these laws (that I support) are in no way meant to infringe on parental rights, but to protect or should I say create basic rights for children. While not autonomous, children are still human beings, not property. Generally speaking, things that are illegal to do to adults, should also be illegal to do to children. It would be ideal if all parents would indeed have their children's best interests at heart and always know what's best for them but, sadly, that's not the case. Whether the damage is inflicted with the best intentions or not, it will still lead to the same result and the children are the ones who will pay the price, often for the rest of their lives.

I don't think the laws regarding not leaving marks are that efficient - you can cause significant pain or even damage to someone without leaving marks. In my childhood, I've met a number of adults sly and sadistic enough to use such knowledge.

I hope to see in the future parenting classes becoming a part of our health insurances; behavioural changes in children always have a reason, be it related to their environment or development and they can be addressed without violence. Better understanding is key and we still have a long way to go as emotional abuse, for instance, is still very common.

^^^

I think that’s great!

Children and Youth do offer free parenting classes, but most parents are afraid that they’ll get in trouble for something so they don’t bother. Most Americans are under the misconception that this agency eagerly looks for opportunities to take children away.

Anyway, I look at abuse this way:

What would we think of a large and strong adult who intentionally hurts someone much smaller and weaker? Probably most of us would cringe from envisioning such a scenario because we’ve all probably faced bullying in one form or another. Or just from a compassionate human standpoint, it’s not a nice or decent thing to do.

When I observe a parent physically “correcting” a child, it makes me sick to my stomach, and I wish that we had suitable laws in place to protect these kids. There’s way too much leeway to get away with stuff.

Spanking kids on the butt often doesn’t leave a mark. It’s hard to bruise that area although welts (and bruises) do happen.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 01 Jan 2020, 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A big part of the problem is convincing hold-outs that they don't actually have a right to use corporal punishment, changing that mindset is likely the main way to see improvement in this regard.

Enforcement would be further compounded by the child having to weigh the pros and cons of reporting again the largest authority figure and likely largest source of stability in their life. That conflict of interest seems likely to leave the most vulnerable in a bad place.

A good point and I was surprised that the only one mentioning this before was Amity. I've always felt physically incapable of hitting anybody smaller than I am, human or animal. That's why it baffles me that some people consider the method only appropriate for very small children

What I remember the most about such experiences in my childhood is not the pain, but the helplessness, the humiliation and the overwhelming feeling of being dominated by someone against whom I didn't stand a sliver of a chance. I started fighting back around 12-13 and prefered being beaten worse because of it. It still caused significant issues with trust and allowing others any kind of control over me in my youth. I think it's particularly important to avoid such experiences in very small children, especially while their brains and psyches are still developing.

Because a crazed 10 year old who's actively seeking violent retribution (or using force to defend themselves) is a much more dangerous opponent than a toddler and you have to go to sleep with that person in your home. That's why. It's cowardice and the understanding that their actions might have repercussions because kids ability to make and execute complicated plans develops quicker than their ability to understand the ramifications and consequences of their choices.

This is a very good point and reflects very well how much the system still fails. Many children removed from home end up in similarly bad or even worse situations. Efficient results can only be achieved by changes in their own homes and in the mentality of younger generations and future parents.

To be honest I wasn't even thinking about what comes after, so it's good you raise that. I'm sure there's a whole range of foster situations which may or may not represent an improvement in circumstances for the kid, but I was thinking of simply the unknown vs. the current norm.

I'd imagine it becomes far more complicated if one has been through 'the system' several times.

From what I know, the system here has been shifting towards prevention and better education, they try hard to work within the family and not remove children from home. I support this wholeheartedly, but as I already said, we all still have a long way to go.

(Incidentally, I grew up in the system and I'm sad to say I found out later it was the lesser evil )

Foster care tends to be much better than it used to be. There’s a lot more safeguards in place such as case workers frequently checking up on kids who are in the system. There’s not enough foster parents to go around, though. We do need to make some strides in our understanding and knowledge of appropriate childcare practices. It’s, in part, a cultural issue although problems like drug and alcohol abuse certainly play a large part, too.

Usually, Children and Youth doesn’t take kids in the first place unless parents fail to make changes or attend required parenting classes or if the abuse was significant enough that it’s not a good idea to bother trying.

A 12 year old girl I worked with in an Autism Support classroom was recently adopted by the foster family she’s been with for 2 years. Lovely people, lovely kid.

I don’t think that she was in foster care due to abuse. I think it was more along the lines of her family being unable to properly care for her and her brother who is also on the Spectrum. He was adopted by the same foster family.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 02 Jan 2020, 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

You’ve learned of skeletons in the biological family closet?

I’ve got a fair amount in mine, too. It’s interesting to see the source of particular generational issues.

Actually, in lots of cultures that's still considered normal and acceptable. In the ones where women are the property of men I mean.

My siblings had it worse and only one survived.

Yeah, I know what you're talking about, it's depressingly common. I've been on a forum for child abuse survivors for a while and people of all ages, genders and (mostly Western) cultures were surprisingly well represented

It's an important subject, I hope this thread stays open.

Human rights eh. Signing up and ratifying the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child has helped with general accountability here regarding child protection.
It introduced dialogue around children's rights, imo making it a more common term and a preferred approach to the past revelations of abuse.
It's illegal here to not report abuse or rather observations of abusive behaviour/cause for significant concern with children and young people under 18.

It’s illegal here for mandated reporters not to report abuse or suspected abuse. It should be illegal for everyone.

We also need stricter laws concerning what constitutes abuse.