Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Why the Left Loses elections

Page 4 of 20 [ 315 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 20  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,472
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

08 Jan 2020, 8:20 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
There are lots of services out there that folks don't know about, but again they are geared towards kids who are really sick or have the potential to get really sick.


And the ones not deemed sick enough but need it anyway. Kid breaks their arm but the family lives paycheck to paycheck? And it isn't just kids.

A few weeks ago my brother, an unemployed university student, damaged his ankle, had to take an ambulance to the hospital and had several hospital visits since. Medicare covered it he did not have to empty his bank account and possibly end up in debt, because we do things better than America.

A lot of Americans that are used to how their country works in terms of healthcare, I don't think you realize how dystopian your system is. Medicare for all is not ridiculously left, you have all just bought into the narrative set by the rich to favour a system that caters to the rich. It is like you are still trapped in a system where fire fighters are private and only prioritise the houses of people that pay them.



I agree, you do things better. The people who want what you have should live with you, they should not try to make the US into Australia or Canada. Then, the US would not be the US.


What's wrong with improving the US?



It needs to be an improvement all are invested in, not just one side. You say frequently that you are a 'starving artist.' Which is fine... It's your choice. Then, you say the US needs to change to suit your choice. So, you get the choice to do what you love and then strong arm someone else into funding it? Pardon me if I have a problem with that. I know of very few people who are ecstatic at the idea of getting out of bed between 4-6 am to trudge off to a job they've been doing for 30 years. But without them, your dream of universal healthcare and basic income would go up in smoke. There's a huge element of selfish and self-serving interests in your plan.


No, I'm looking out for everyone else, including the people who pull themselves out of bed between 4-6 am to go to work.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,472
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

08 Jan 2020, 8:23 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
So, you are saying that being poor is a choice?

Do you recognise the self interest already inherent in the culture, where companies continue to report record profit to pay out to its higher ups and stockholders, but you see no changes on things like a minimum wage and trying to cut every expense possible with its workers?



Being poor is not a choice, but staying poor can definitely be a choice. Especially if the choice involves being a 'starving artist,' which is the choice I am talking about in the comment you are responding to. Krachy chooses to stay home and write, which is fine. That's his choice. What isn't his choice is to tell me that my interests would be better served if I saw things his way. He thinks if my 58 year old husband keeps slaving away, drops our insurance and we all get on Medicaid, everything would be great. Kracky's happy at his typewriter, doing what he loves. My husband wants to retire, but doesn't dare. And we all have mediocre insurance. That's no fun for us Bradleigh, that's only fun for Kracky.


No, I want everything to be just delightful for your 58 year old husband, too. The current system where ordinary working people just get the crumbs of the uber rich will never make anyone better off, save for the uber rich.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,649
Location: Calne,England

08 Jan 2020, 9:05 pm

If what kind of job you have is largely dependent on how intelligent you are , and how intelligent you are is beyond your control, should we praise people who are clever and rich while chastising the poor and less intelligent?



Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

08 Jan 2020, 9:37 pm

firemonkey wrote:
If what kind of job you have is largely dependent on how intelligent you are , and how intelligent you are is beyond your control, should we praise people who are clever and rich while chastising the poor and less intelligent?


We can start designing people into their castes, Alphas and Betas are the top caste, while bottom castes are Gammas, Deltas, and Epsilons. Long live the World State.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,559
Location: the island of defective toy santas

08 Jan 2020, 9:54 pm

firemonkey wrote:
It's the same in the UK. The older you get the more likely you'll vote Conservative .
Quote:
The tipping point - the age at which a voter is more likely to have voted Conservative than Labour - is now 39, down from 47 at the last election.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... l-election

we hippies useta call that "selling out."



firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,649
Location: Calne,England

08 Jan 2020, 10:10 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
If what kind of job you have is largely dependent on how intelligent you are , and how intelligent you are is beyond your control, should we praise people who are clever and rich while chastising the poor and less intelligent?


We can start designing people into their castes, Alphas and Betas are the top caste, while bottom castes are Gammas, Deltas, and Epsilons. Long live the World State.


For me a world where being clever and rich is seen as being a virtue(Very much a conservative kind of world) , and being poor is seen as something to criticise and put people down for (again very much a conservative kind of world), is a barbaric and uncivilised world .



Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

08 Jan 2020, 10:27 pm

I was making a reference to the book Brave New World.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,559
Location: the island of defective toy santas

08 Jan 2020, 10:57 pm

i always saw aldous huxley and george orwell's respective dystopian visions as akin to "good cop" and "bad cop." both are differing pictures of systematic means of maintaining dominance of a select group. i wonder which the GOP types would like better.



firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,649
Location: Calne,England

08 Jan 2020, 11:01 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
I was making a reference to the book Brave New World.


It's been over 47 years since I read that book .



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,559
Location: the island of defective toy santas

08 Jan 2020, 11:02 pm

43 years for me. did see the '78 NBC telefilm of it, however.



Persephone29
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2019
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,395
Location: Everville

08 Jan 2020, 11:56 pm

firemonkey wrote:
If what kind of job you have is largely dependent on how intelligent you are , and how intelligent you are is beyond your control, should we praise people who are clever and rich while chastising the poor and less intelligent?



No, I see that as the perfect example of someone who should be eligible for services. I have no problem with taking care of people who are incapable of supporting themselves. I have a huge problem with people who can but prefer not to.

My son is on the spectrum, he has a less then average IQ. He works everyday. He lives on his own. It's all in how you raise them. If you raise them to think they 'can't,' they won't even try. I say raise them to think they can and then backtrack if you must.


_________________
Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I hate you, it just means we disagree.

Neurocognitive exam in May 2019, diagnosed with ASD, Asperger's type in June 2019.


Persephone29
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2019
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,395
Location: Everville

09 Jan 2020, 12:01 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
So, you are saying that being poor is a choice?

Do you recognise the self interest already inherent in the culture, where companies continue to report record profit to pay out to its higher ups and stockholders, but you see no changes on things like a minimum wage and trying to cut every expense possible with its workers?



Being poor is not a choice, but staying poor can definitely be a choice. Especially if the choice involves being a 'starving artist,' which is the choice I am talking about in the comment you are responding to. Krachy chooses to stay home and write, which is fine. That's his choice. What isn't his choice is to tell me that my interests would be better served if I saw things his way. He thinks if my 58 year old husband keeps slaving away, drops our insurance and we all get on Medicaid, everything would be great. Kracky's happy at his typewriter, doing what he loves. My husband wants to retire, but doesn't dare. And we all have mediocre insurance. That's no fun for us Bradleigh, that's only fun for Kracky.


No, I want everything to be just delightful for your 58 year old husband, too. The current system where ordinary working people just get the crumbs of the uber rich will never make anyone better off, save for the uber rich.


I don't understand what you are referencing. My husband never got an education, doesn't even have his GED. He got into the elevator trade. Began as a helper, took the classes and made mechanic. Then, got the foreman job. Then applied for the service manager position. He made $161,000 last year, in Florida. No education, no leg up, just hard work. I just can't buy into what you're saying. If you want it bad enough, you'll get it. If you don't, you'll meet one road block and give up.


_________________
Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I hate you, it just means we disagree.

Neurocognitive exam in May 2019, diagnosed with ASD, Asperger's type in June 2019.


Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia

09 Jan 2020, 12:15 am

So you believe that everyone can make $161,000 if they work hard enough? Just tell everyone to work harder and we would all be earning over 100 grand. Better go tell those people who work multiple but are still bellow the poverty line to get their act together, I guess that they can all go looking for the type of job your husband has.

I ain't saying that it can't happen, but it is literally impossible for everyone to get so lucky. There are people in rich families that barely have to try at all, and can have their degrees pretty much paid for along with a job that pays ridiculous amounts.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,559
Location: the island of defective toy santas

09 Jan 2020, 12:35 am

them that has, shall get; them that's not, shall lose. that the bible says, and it still is news. mama may have, and papa may have, but god bless the child that's got his own...



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,472
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Jan 2020, 12:47 am

Persephone29 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
So, you are saying that being poor is a choice?

Do you recognise the self interest already inherent in the culture, where companies continue to report record profit to pay out to its higher ups and stockholders, but you see no changes on things like a minimum wage and trying to cut every expense possible with its workers?



Being poor is not a choice, but staying poor can definitely be a choice. Especially if the choice involves being a 'starving artist,' which is the choice I am talking about in the comment you are responding to. Krachy chooses to stay home and write, which is fine. That's his choice. What isn't his choice is to tell me that my interests would be better served if I saw things his way. He thinks if my 58 year old husband keeps slaving away, drops our insurance and we all get on Medicaid, everything would be great. Kracky's happy at his typewriter, doing what he loves. My husband wants to retire, but doesn't dare. And we all have mediocre insurance. That's no fun for us Bradleigh, that's only fun for Kracky.


No, I want everything to be just delightful for your 58 year old husband, too. The current system where ordinary working people just get the crumbs of the uber rich will never make anyone better off, save for the uber rich.


I don't understand what you are referencing. My husband never got an education, doesn't even have his GED. He got into the elevator trade. Began as a helper, took the classes and made mechanic. Then, got the foreman job. Then applied for the service manager position. He made $161,000 last year, in Florida. No education, no leg up, just hard work. I just can't buy into what you're saying. If you want it bad enough, you'll get it. If you don't, you'll meet one road block and give up.


Well, I'm very happy for your husband. But the fact is, your hubby is the exception not the rule. At one time anyone could make it in America through hard work. I know that because both my parents were working class; my dad had a great job at an aluminum plant so that my mom didn't have to work, and I got spoiled rotten as a kid. But today it's the exception where an ordinary person can have the sort of life I had growing up. And while hard work was part of it, a big part of my family's success back then had to do with my dad's union membership.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,649
Location: Calne,England

09 Jan 2020, 5:07 am

Persephone29 wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
If what kind of job you have is largely dependent on how intelligent you are , and how intelligent you are is beyond your control, should we praise people who are clever and rich while chastising the poor and less intelligent?



No, I see that as the perfect example of someone who should be eligible for services. I have no problem with taking care of people who are incapable of supporting themselves. I have a huge problem with people who can but prefer not to.

My son is on the spectrum, he has a less then average IQ. He works everyday. He lives on his own. It's all in how you raise them. If you raise them to think they 'can't,' they won't even try. I say raise them to think they can and then backtrack if you must.


I've heard quite a few on the political right say that . It would be a fairly reasonable statement if the party they support here or in the USA hadn't chosen to move the goalposts, due to ideology , as to who is deserving,or not deserving , of support .

I'd have more time for 'Of course I want the genuinely disabled helped' type comments if who is deemed as such hadn't been dishonestly , and sociopathically , changed over the years