Racists don’t get it that...

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All religions believe in the same God, I don't care who believes in what, it's how we behave with each other that counts nothing else.
I am saying goodbye to this thread and PPR
I don't usually discuss religion and don't enjoy it, nothing personal QFT.

@QFT
Messianic Jews don't eat pork,they follow the Torah kosher laws,not the Talmudic kosher laws orthodox Jews follow.

Jews don't need to persuade gentiles to become Jewish because gentiles only have to follow the 7 Noachide laws and don't need to follow Torah or Tanakh.

Your right that the orthodox and Messianic Jews are in a tug of war of followers,orthodox Jews feel Judaism is losing followers to Messianic cults and eastern Mysticism,and that Hebrew Christians use deceptive tactics to con Jews into becoming Christians.And of coarse Hebrew Christians want converts because Christianity is evangelical.It's to complex for me to have an opinion on really.

Don't leave Teach,your great in PPR,you have good Khabalah stories.

Yeah, that is exactly how I see it. Thanks for summarizing it!

But the picture Teach presented appeared different. It felt like she said Jews are perfectly fine with other Jews converting as long as they are doing so on their own; and I don't think that is true. Thats why I was surprised.

By the way, you appear quite knowledgible on this. Are you of Jewish background, or do you have a lot of friends or relatives who are either Jewish or Messianic?

^^^
No I am not Jewish,I studied it in my twenties.

Specifically what we're you and teach disagreeing about.

What is your viewpoint on such things,the conversation seemed a bit vague but sometimes I miss things.

Was it a class you took at the university? What was your major?

What religion are you by the way?



When she mentioned that she thinks highly of Jesus, I felt that maybe she disagrees with the majority of the Jews, which is of course possible, for every two Jews there are three opinions. So I asked her whether she happens to disagree with the Jewish attitude towards Messianics. But she evaded answering this question by saying "Jews have no issue with Christians". And I said "I know that Jews have no issue with gentile Christians, but they do have an issue with Messianic Jews" (and the purpose of pointing it out was to then ask her whether she disagrees with their attitude towards Messianic Jews) but then she just said she doesn't like talking about religion and left. So I guess the "presumed" disagreement would pertain to Jewish attitude towards Messianics -- but I said the word "presumed" because I can't really know for sure whether we would have agreed or disagreed since she avoided talking about it. I would have been really interested in hearing what she had to say, but since she wouldn't talk, all I can do is guess.



I am not sure what you are referring by this question. I am guessing you were trying to ask me whether I believe that proselytizing is a good thing or a bad thing, so I will write my opinion on this. But if you were trying to ask something else, feel free to let me know. Anyway here it goes:

I am Messianic myself, so I am in favor of proselytizing -- but I would have preferred if it was done more honestly. For example, I been to Messianic churches where they sincerely believe in keeping Old Testament law, and I been to other ones where they don't really believe in it but they still keep it, which feels like just a way of attracting the Jews. So I like the former a lot more than the latter. Basically either you believe in keeping the Old Testament law -- and then you can honestly tell the Jews that you do -- or you don't believe in keeping the Old Testament law and then you say that you don't. But don't try to sugar-coat things.

To give you an example of the type of thing I "like", I actually know some Messianic websites that spend a lot of time trying to convince gentile Christians that they should keep the Old Testament law. This, I think, is the ultimate proof of them being sincere when they are telling the Jews "hey we keep the Jewish law as well". For that same reason I also like sabbaterian churches that aren't Messianic (Seventh Day Adventists as well as United Church of God are examples of such). The fact that they don't try to pretend to be Jewish yet, at the same time, they keep the Old Testament law shows that they are sincere in trying to keep it.

I do realize though that Sabbaterians trying to convince other Christians to keep the Old Testament law is not a Jewish concept since Jews don't seek converts. But you see, the idea that Jews don't seek converts is probably originated from the disraction of the second temple, because the pharesees did seek converts (Matt 23:15). So one of the points of Messianic Judaism is to adhere to Old Testament and reject everything that came after the disraction of the temple. From this point of view, it is quite consistent to seek converts and think of it as a "biblically Jewish" practice in contrast to rabbinical Judaism.

But going back to the honesty issue, since today's Judaism is rabinic, lets stick to the modern language and not confuse people. So from this perspective Messianic movement is neither mainstream Jewish nor mainstream Christian but somewhere in the middle. And that is totally fine, as long as Messianics are honest in terms of where they stand.

I was not raised in a religion,my mother was Catholic of Irish decent and my father protestant of Danish decent,we never went to church.

I never went to college or university,I never finished high school.I found a old Hebrew dictionary by Eleazer Ben Yehudi in a used book store and it looked interesting so I bought it.I ended up reading the Torah all the way through,some English,some Hebrew,I had never read the Bible before.But that was 20 years ago I have not read much Hebrew or Torah or Tanakh in many years.

I don't the knowledge or religious convictions to argue who's right:Orthodox Rabbinical or Messianic.I didn't mean before to put down Messianic's I was just saying what orthodox say about them,I have no personal issue with evangelization.

Some people don't understand that having such stereotypes of other ethnicities is racism.

Hi Vermont
I was not actually disagreeing with QFT.
My beliefs forbid me to criticise or pass judgement on other beliefs. In the wisdom of kabbalah "each man judges according to his own flaws." I work with my own beliefs and accept that others have the right to their own.
I just commented that I thought Jesus was an enlightened progressive, I don't think he was more than that, this is just Teach's personal observation as a person not according to any particular doctrine. In my belief we are all sons and daughters of God.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 4354921334

Last edited by Teach51 on 25 Jul 2020, 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

In case anyone is slightly shocked by QFT saying "the jew" and other slightly derogatory sounding things about judaism he is Jewish (or part Jewish)? but is a practicing christian.

I don't think he intended any harm

I am sure he didn't mean any harm.

QFT is Russian born, he speaks English in the way Russians express themselves in Russian. I have many Russian friends who sound rather blunt while speaking a second language.

Thank you Teach for bringing something positive to say,instead of these endless trolls who promote nothing but hate.

Are you a Trinitarian Messianic Jew, do the Messianic Jews believe in Trinity and Jesus' divinity in general?

Messianic Jewish churches exist freely in Israel and practice their faith undisturbed. They are legal. I have myself been friends with Israeli Jews in such a community. I have never personally read or heard a news item that was derogatory, I have never actually come across a news item regarding Messianic Jews. Perhaps there is a lot of negative propaganda regarding this in Messianic circles or generated by certain entities with various objectives in mind on both sides. I wouldn't know. It is is legal to be a Messianic Jew in Israel, all religions are practiced freely and each obviously observe the laws and beliefs of their particular religion with the belief that their own is the correct one.


Secular Jews don't believe in sins, they don't believe in God so they have no religious beliefs. I don't personally believe everything I read. We should all get along and I disagree with orthodox Jewish doctrine that judges other faiths and factions, I don't understand any faith that looks down its nose at another, God wishes us to unify above our differences. I would not choose my faith out of fear of being thought of negatively by others but rather through my own relentless pursuit of the truth as I understand it. I personally believe in God not religion. Gone from PPR It was mostly fun.

@Face of boo

What is the difference between trinity Christianity and non Trinity Christianity.I have heard Oriental Orthodox are heretics because they don't believe in the trinity,but I'm confused as to the difference.I know Catholics believe in the Father,son and Holy Ghost but I'm not sure what that means as opposed to non trinitarians.The difference seems confusing.

Way back in late Roman times there were competing sects of Christianity. Some believed that Christ was a prophet of God, but not himself God. That was the view of the the Bishop Orian of Alexandria, and that belief was named after him. And called "Arianism" (not to be confused with "Aryan"- a whole other can of worms to do with race and linguistics and nothing to do with Christian theology). Arianism and Trinitarianism Gnosticism and many other versions of Christianity competed until the Council of Nicea when all of the theologians of the Roman Empire got together and with blessing of Emperor Constantine: concluded that Trinitarian Christianity to right, and the rest to be heresies.

Unitarians, in a sense, reinvented non trinitarian Christianity in recent centuries. But (as I understand it) all the rest of extant Christianity traces back to that convention in Nicea, and are Trinitarian; Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, Ethiopian, etc.

But for awhile Arianism caught on, and many Pagan tribes just outside of the Roman Empire would convert to Arianism for a generation or two, before finnally converting to regular Christianity. This happened both north of the Roman Empire among the Germanic tribes, and south of the empire in the deserts. Islam may have originally been just an offshoot of nontrinitarian Arian Christianity in Arabia.

I have heard of the Arians,they came from Arius a Libyan theologian and was followed by Gothic tribes mainly to piss off Rome who didn't like him.I have heard of the Gnostics as well but wasn't sure why they were called heretical.

The Armenian Orthodox church ( under the Oriental Orthodox)was actually the first Christian church,I wonder why they weren't accepted by Eastern Orthodox or Catholics.