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League_Girl
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30 Jan 2021, 8:24 pm

Months back I brought up the issue of color blindness when I was being anti racist and some people here didn't take that well. Now it seems like people here are handling it better and even ASPartOfMe is backing me up now.

My how times change in less than a year lol.


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Chorlton88
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30 Jan 2021, 9:50 pm

Oh dear. I have been engaging in covert White Supremacy all my life.

How do I change the colour blindness I was taught? What do I need to do to not be a White Supremacist ?


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magz
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31 Jan 2021, 6:08 am

"Color blindness" needs a lot of explanation to avoid confusion.
Based on my current understanding:
"Color blindness" as not racially profiling - good.
"Color blindness" as being hyper-vigiliant not to accidentally racially profile - unhealthy;
"Color blindness" as denying race can play a major role in a person's experience - harmful.


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ASPartOfMe
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31 Jan 2021, 6:53 am

League_Girl wrote:
even ASPartOfMe is backing me up now.

My how times change in less than a year lol.

I did :?: I have not changed my opinion on the subject, maybe I am just explaining it better.


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OutsideView
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31 Jan 2021, 6:57 am

This is a bit confusing. If I don't know what someone has faced because of their skin colour, what am I supposed to see or assume about them in order to not be colour-blind?


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magz
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31 Jan 2021, 7:04 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I have not changed my opinion on the subject, maybe I am just explaining it better.

That often helps :lol:


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magz
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31 Jan 2021, 7:15 am

OutsideView wrote:
This is a bit confusing. If I don't know what someone has faced because of their skin colour, what am I supposed to see or assume about them in order to not be colour-blind?

Your profile suggests you're not in the US. I had to learn really a lot to understand how North Americans experience race, and there's likely even more to learn. The Old Continent is far from being an issue-free paradise but some conflicts are foreign to us. Europe has more recent immigration-related discrimination, not hundreds of years of history of ancestry-segregated cruelty and various adaptations to it still lingering in the culture.


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goldfish21
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31 Jan 2021, 8:33 am

magz wrote:
OutsideView wrote:
This is a bit confusing. If I don't know what someone has faced because of their skin colour, what am I supposed to see or assume about them in order to not be colour-blind?

Your profile suggests you're not in the US. I had to learn really a lot to understand how North Americans experience race, and there's likely even more to learn. The Old Continent is far from being an issue-free paradise but some conflicts are foreign to us. Europe has more recent immigration-related discrimination, not hundreds of years of history of ancestry-segregated cruelty and various adaptations to it still lingering in the culture.


Shouldn't the "old continent," have thousands of years of history vs. our ~400? :?


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slam_thunderhide
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31 Jan 2021, 8:45 am

It's sad to see how easy some people are to manipulate. It seems like some people are so in thrall to the word racism that they just have to be shown a list of things that someone has labelled racist, and they start fretting over how they need to change their behavior. Maybe instead people should be asking "who created this list, and what gives them the authority to tell us how we should behave?"

For years I've been hearing atheists (of which I am one myself) talk about how we don't need religion because people already have an in-built sense of morality, but apparently some people in our increasingly secularized society think we need the High Priests of Diversity to constantly lecture us about right and wrong.

My reaction when I saw the list in the OP was that I don't give a s*** what it says. But I suppose that's just my "fragility", and I'm denying people's "lived experiences", or some other such self-serving, unfalsifiable buzzwords and phrases that were only invented 5 or 10 years ago.



goldfish21
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31 Jan 2021, 8:56 am

slam_thunderhide wrote:
It's sad to see how easy some people are to manipulate. It seems like some people are so in thrall to the word racism that they just have to be shown a list of things that someone has labelled racist, and they start fretting over how they need to change their behavior. Maybe instead people should be asking "who created this list, and what gives them the authority to tell us how we should behave?"

For years I've been hearing atheists (of which I am one myself) talk about how we don't need religion because people already have an in-built sense of morality, but apparently some people in our increasingly secularized society think we need the High Priests of Diversity to constantly lecture us about right and wrong.

My reaction when I saw the list in the OP was that I don't give a s*** what it says. But I suppose that's just my "fragility", and I'm denying people's "lived experiences", or some other such self-serving, unfalsifiable buzzwords and phrases that were only invented 5 or 10 years ago.


Yep, nailed it!


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slam_thunderhide
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31 Jan 2021, 9:10 am

goldfish21 wrote:
slam_thunderhide wrote:
It's sad to see how easy some people are to manipulate. It seems like some people are so in thrall to the word racism that they just have to be shown a list of things that someone has labelled racist, and they start fretting over how they need to change their behavior. Maybe instead people should be asking "who created this list, and what gives them the authority to tell us how we should behave?"

For years I've been hearing atheists (of which I am one myself) talk about how we don't need religion because people already have an in-built sense of morality, but apparently some people in our increasingly secularized society think we need the High Priests of Diversity to constantly lecture us about right and wrong.

My reaction when I saw the list in the OP was that I don't give a s*** what it says. But I suppose that's just my "fragility", and I'm denying people's "lived experiences", or some other such self-serving, unfalsifiable buzzwords and phrases that were only invented 5 or 10 years ago.


Yep, nailed it!


Lol, how predictable. If you didn't spend your time in this sub-forum pointing and sputtering about racism, you'd have nothing left to feel self-righteous about, would you? Oh, apart from trying to keep the Russiagate hoax alive I suppose.



OutsideView
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31 Jan 2021, 9:19 am

magz wrote:
Your profile suggests you're not in the US. I had to learn really a lot to understand how North Americans experience race, and there's likely even more to learn.

What do you make of the "Eurocentric curriculum" one? Guessing it meant what you learn about in school my first thought was "Well I live in Europe"! If it's a USA-centric list of racism it seems a bit strange that they mainly learn about European stuff. But then older history for most white Americans is European.


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goldfish21
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31 Jan 2021, 9:20 am

slam_thunderhide wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
slam_thunderhide wrote:
It's sad to see how easy some people are to manipulate. It seems like some people are so in thrall to the word racism that they just have to be shown a list of things that someone has labelled racist, and they start fretting over how they need to change their behavior. Maybe instead people should be asking "who created this list, and what gives them the authority to tell us how we should behave?"

For years I've been hearing atheists (of which I am one myself) talk about how we don't need religion because people already have an in-built sense of morality, but apparently some people in our increasingly secularized society think we need the High Priests of Diversity to constantly lecture us about right and wrong.

My reaction when I saw the list in the OP was that I don't give a s*** what it says. But I suppose that's just my "fragility", and I'm denying people's "lived experiences", or some other such self-serving, unfalsifiable buzzwords and phrases that were only invented 5 or 10 years ago.


Yep, nailed it!


Lol, how predictable. If you didn't spend your time in this sub-forum pointing and sputtering about racism, you'd have nothing left to feel self-righteous about, would you? Oh, apart from trying to keep the Russiagate hoax alive I suppose.


You seem confused.. it was you who invested your time in this sub-forum to tell us about your racism. I merely concurred.


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naturalplastic
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31 Jan 2021, 9:46 am

magz wrote:
OutsideView wrote:
This is a bit confusing. If I don't know what someone has faced because of their skin colour, what am I supposed to see or assume about them in order to not be colour-blind?

Your profile suggests you're not in the US. I had to learn really a lot to understand how North Americans experience race, and there's likely even more to learn. The Old Continent is far from being an issue-free paradise but some conflicts are foreign to us. Europe has more recent immigration-related discrimination, not hundreds of years of history of ancestry-segregated cruelty and various adaptations to it still lingering in the culture.


I can imagine it would be hard for Europeans, especially eastern Europeans to grasp the US history of race relations.

You Poles have centuries of tribal hatreds with Germans, Russians, and with the once large Jewish population in your country. Like Ireland, and its sectarian strife between Catholic and Protestant (which is really more of an ethnic conflict between Irish-Irish, and Scotch-Irish).

Like wise - take any region of comparable size in subsaharan Black Africa. You likely find centuries of rivalry between neighboring tribes ...like the Ibo, Hausa, and Ashanti, in west Africa.

But with the discovery of America- the native Amerindian population gets swept aside - and settlers from both Africa and from Europe replace them in the land. The tribalisms of the old world that existed between neighboring European tribes (Germans, Gentile Poles, Polish Jews) evaporate, and are replaced by a "White" identity. Likewise African slaves even MORE quickly lost their tribal identity in America, and just became "Black".

So...we in North America - simply replaced the endemic tribal hatreds our ancestors had towards the similar looking people of the tribe next door in the old world - with tribal hatred directed against folks whose ancestors came from another continent - and whose ancestry is signaled by having a different skin color than we have.

Its different ...but its the same.



magz
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31 Jan 2021, 1:16 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
magz wrote:
OutsideView wrote:
This is a bit confusing. If I don't know what someone has faced because of their skin colour, what am I supposed to see or assume about them in order to not be colour-blind?

Your profile suggests you're not in the US. I had to learn really a lot to understand how North Americans experience race, and there's likely even more to learn. The Old Continent is far from being an issue-free paradise but some conflicts are foreign to us. Europe has more recent immigration-related discrimination, not hundreds of years of history of ancestry-segregated cruelty and various adaptations to it still lingering in the culture.


I can imagine it would be hard for Europeans, especially eastern Europeans to grasp the US history of race relations.

You Poles have centuries of tribal hatreds with Germans, Russians, and with the once large Jewish population in your country. Like Ireland, and its sectarian strife between Catholic and Protestant (which is really more of an ethnic conflict between Irish-Irish, and Scotch-Irish).

Like wise - take any region of comparable size in subsaharan Black Africa. You likely find centuries of rivalry between neighboring tribes ...like the Ibo, Hausa, and Ashanti, in west Africa.

But with the discovery of America- the native Amerindian population gets swept aside - and settlers from both Africa and from Europe replace them in the land. The tribalisms of the old world that existed between neighboring European tribes (Germans, Gentile Poles, Polish Jews) evaporate, and are replaced by a "White" identity. Likewise African slaves even MORE quickly lost their tribal identity in America, and just became "Black".

So...we in North America - simply replaced the endemic tribal hatreds our ancestors had towards the similar looking people of the tribe next door in the old world - with tribal hatred directed against folks whose ancestors came from another continent - and whose ancestry is signaled by having a different skin color than we have.

Its different ...but its the same.

I think you miss the traditionally high rate of intermarriage between different groups in Central Europe. It was really hard for me to understand how, after 400 years of coexistence, there are 80% White and 15% Black, not 95% Brown (like in Brazil or Carribeans).
Poles and Germans may traditionally fight but it does not discourage gene and culture flow.


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GGPViper
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31 Jan 2021, 1:32 pm

magz wrote:
I think you miss the traditionally high rate of intermarriage between different groups in Central Europe. It was really hard for me to understand how, after 400 years of coexistence, there are 80% White and 15% Black, not 95% Brown (like in Brazil or Carribeans).
Poles and Germans may traditionally fight but it does not discourage gene and culture flow.

Well, interracial marriage was forbidden in 16 US states in the US all the way up until 1967.