I fail to get why being against abortion makes one sexist

Page 4 of 8 [ 125 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,991
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

21 May 2021, 12:18 am

cyberdad wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Not necessarily sexism, but still peoples religious beliefs can also stay out of my uterus as well. I don't want kids so, will abort regardless of others opinions if I get pregnant.


Do you use contraception? that would resolve any dilemma over unwanted kids


Anymore we just do the pull out method, initially we used condoms but not usually now. That said we'd probably know if it didn't happen in time and then just get a morning after pill. But on the off chance we missed that somehow then we'd get an abortion.


_________________
We won't go back.


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 30,618
Location: Right over your left shoulder

21 May 2021, 12:30 am

salad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh what do you mean if the outcome doesn't change? Do you mean if the abortion does not work?


Denying an inalienable right is denying an inalienable right no matter what the argument used to justify it.


That argument actually contradicts the concept of inalienable rights since fundamental to that concept is that one's rights are only pursued insofar as they dont infringe on others' rights. From a certain angle abortion cant be called an inalienable right since in some contexts it infringes upon the right to life of the unborn fetus.


It's irrelevant, only one person owns the flesh being used to support the fetus and even a person wouldn't have the right to demand access to another's flesh, even if that access was required to sustain them.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
They have a name for Nazis that were only Nazis because of economic anxiety or similar issues. They're called Nazis.


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 30,618
Location: Right over your left shoulder

21 May 2021, 12:35 am

cyberdad wrote:
salad wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Fnord wrote:
salad wrote:
Only a woman should decide what she will do with her body.[/color]


In salad's culture women don't necessarily get to decide that.


Yes in Palestinian society women have less rights than men which I condemn. However its deeply offensive and racist of you to always take low blows at me because of flaws in my family's culture and assume just because my family's culture has a view it necessarily reflects mine. I never explicitly condemned abortion on my thread but only stated that calling those who oppose abortion sexist is not necessarily correct. My views on abortion are my own and not the imposition of a culture I reject most of.


Is this "low blow" addressed to me or Fnord?


Probably you.

Assuming he must share his views with a demographic bloc he's a part of for the same rational wasn't really a fair assumption. Not every member of a culture accepts all of it's premises.

You'd feel the same if a stereotype of a demographic you're part of was used to explain why obviously you hold whatever opinion, when actually you know you reached it via some other reasoning.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
They have a name for Nazis that were only Nazis because of economic anxiety or similar issues. They're called Nazis.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

21 May 2021, 1:33 am

funeralxempire wrote:
You'd feel the same if a stereotype of a demographic you're part of was used to explain why obviously you hold whatever opinion, when actually you know you reached it via some other reasoning.


Yes he used the term "low blow" which I accept, I mean't to say that the wider Arab culture does not allow women to take control over their bodies. This is a fact, It would also apply to parts of South Asia, north and horn Africa as well.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 30,618
Location: Right over your left shoulder

21 May 2021, 2:15 am

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
You'd feel the same if a stereotype of a demographic you're part of was used to explain why obviously you hold whatever opinion, when actually you know you reached it via some other reasoning.


Yes he used the term "low blow" which I accept, I mean't to say that the wider Arab culture does not allow women to take control over their bodies. This is a fact, It would also apply to parts of South Asia, north and horn Africa as well.


Lots of patriarchal societies hold those views, and considering Anglo society isn't that much ahead of anyone else (at most a generation beyond what was inherent to Germanic societies) we shouldn't assume that people from other backgrounds hold the same views as their countrymen, especially if they've grown up outside of that place.

That's the same logic used to denigrate immigrants from those places as incompatible with Anglo societies and it ignore that freethinkers who question the basic premises of their society exist and that folks on the spectrum do tend to be prone towards questioning social norms.

I don't think it's unfair to point out that some cultures are even more patriarchal than Anglo culture, but it might be unfair to suggest people from those backgrounds must agree with what is common for people of their background.


_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
They have a name for Nazis that were only Nazis because of economic anxiety or similar issues. They're called Nazis.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

21 May 2021, 3:38 am

funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
You'd feel the same if a stereotype of a demographic you're part of was used to explain why obviously you hold whatever opinion, when actually you know you reached it via some other reasoning.


Yes he used the term "low blow" which I accept, I mean't to say that the wider Arab culture does not allow women to take control over their bodies. This is a fact, It would also apply to parts of South Asia, north and horn Africa as well.


Lots of patriarchal societies hold those views, and considering Anglo society isn't that much ahead of anyone else (at most a generation beyond what was inherent to Germanic societies) we shouldn't assume that people from other backgrounds hold the same views as their countrymen, especially if they've grown up outside of that place.

That's the same logic used to denigrate immigrants from those places as incompatible with Anglo societies and it ignore that freethinkers who question the basic premises of their society exist and that folks on the spectrum do tend to be prone towards questioning social norms.

I don't think it's unfair to point out that some cultures are even more patriarchal than Anglo culture, but it might be unfair to suggest people from those backgrounds must agree with what is common for people of their background.


I think what you are saying applied to the "Anglosphere" and European countries a couple of generations ago. Today women in Germanic countries are relatively free to do what they like to their bodies. Judging from the rise of p**** riot the old soviet girls are getting control of their bodies too.



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,283
Location: Poland

21 May 2021, 5:32 am

Well, I do accept the main pro-life argument that a human fetus is a human being at the earliest stage of development.
I also accept that the very existence of this fetus happens at the expense of the mother's body.

No, I don't think being pro-life would automatically make one sexist - unless that person obstinately ignores the fact that pregnancy and birth are not exactly a walk in a park, to say the least.
A "pro-choicer" who gave his girlfriend a "choice": either abortion or single motherhood - would be, in my book, even more sexist.

Being responsible before anyone gets pregnant is absolutely welcome in people of all genders.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Mr Reynholm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2019
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,363
Location: Tulsa, OK

21 May 2021, 7:47 am

It keeps the number of opponents lower by frightening them into silence.



XFilesGeek
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,031
Location: The Oort Cloud

21 May 2021, 8:30 am

Because forced birthers don't actually care about unborn babies, they just want to punish and control women.


_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."

-XFG (no longer a moderator)


Fireblossom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,577

21 May 2021, 8:32 am

cyberdad wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Not necessarily sexism, but still peoples religious beliefs can also stay out of my uterus as well. I don't want kids so, will abort regardless of others opinions if I get pregnant.


Do you use contraception? that would resolve any dilemma over unwanted kids


Not necessarily, for those don't always work. Plus women can get pregnant from being raped as well.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:      

21 May 2021, 8:33 am

Those "forced-birthers" also care nothing for the child once it is born.  They are also likely to favor capital punishment.



Mikah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Age: 37
Posts: 3,201
Location: England

21 May 2021, 9:10 am

Fnord wrote:
They are also likely to favor capital punishment.


But not for being an inconvenience to one's parents.


_________________
Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!


ArtsyFarsty
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

Joined: 17 Mar 2021
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 80

21 May 2021, 8:27 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s a matter of “control over one’s own body,” in many cases. A person’s right to do what she wants with her own body.

There's the thing, I'm not and never was my mother's body, my body has an entire set of chromosomes hers did not and still does not.

:arrow: Furthermore, as an unplanned pregnancy who could have been aborted I find it frighteningly odd that I have "no right" to speak about abortion because I "don't have a uterus" - EXCUSE ME, but I AM THE ONE who could have been aborted :!: :!: :!:

I was unplanned, as well. Conceived by two people who were completely ill-equipped to be parents. Had I been aborted, I wouldn’t have been affected in any way; it would have happened before I even had a sense of consciousness or personhood.

However, if my teenage mother chose the option, she could have finished school, not been trapped in a horrific marriage, maybe could have later given birth to other children when she was older and hopefully in a stable relationship.

My father would have had one less person to abuse.

Sure, adoption was an option. But then I be who I am now, with the added emotional anguish of being given away by my birth mother.



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

22 May 2021, 12:12 pm

Well as far as abortion being intentionally sexist towards women goes, let's say in the future they come out with technology for men to get pregnant and men to have babies. Sounds far fetched but let's say it happens, science and technology wise, hypothetically.

If a lot of countries in this future had laws that pregnant men couldn't get an abortion either, then would the idea of abortion still be considered sexist towards women, if it was illegal for pregnant men as well?



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,991
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

22 May 2021, 12:18 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well as far as abortion being intentionally sexist towards women goes, let's say in the future they come out with technology for men to get pregnant and men to have babies. Sounds far fetched but let's say it happens, science and technology wise, hypothetically.

If a lot of countries in this future had laws that pregnant men couldn't get an abortion either, then would the idea of abortion still be considered sexist towards women, if it was illegal for pregnant men as well?


Well that's not the way it works, in reality only women can get pregnant...of course if both could get pregnant sexism may not factor in as much. But that's not really relevant since it's not feasible.


_________________
We won't go back.


ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 40
Posts: 5,590
Location: canada

22 May 2021, 12:22 pm

Oh but my point is, is that people only think of it as sexist, because the woman can get pregant and not the man. Where as I dont' think abortion is sexist, it's just matter of scientific happenstance, that only the woman can pregnant. So the sexism is unintional, because of the scientific happenstance of it, is what I meant.