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14 Sep 2021, 2:01 pm
Fnord wrote:
Here is the original text. Keep in mind that this is a WHITE woman relating her experiences.
Peggy McIntosh wrote:
White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack, by Peggy McIntosh.
"I was taught to see racism only in individual acts of meanness, not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group."
DAILY EFFECTS OF WHITE PRIVILEGE
I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.
1) I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2) I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
3) If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
4) I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
5) I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
6) I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
7) When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
8) I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
9) If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
10) I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.
11) I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
12) I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
13) Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
14) I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
15) I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
16) I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
17) I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
18) I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
19) I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
20) I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
21) I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
22) I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
23) I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
24) I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.
25) If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I have not been singled out because of my race.
26) I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
27) I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
28) I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
29) I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
30) If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there is not a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
31) I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
32) My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
33) I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
34) I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
35) I can take a job with an Affirmative Action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
36) If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
37) I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
38) I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
39) I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
40) I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
41) I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
42) I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
43) If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
44) I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
45) I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
46) I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
47) I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
48) I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
49) My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
50) I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.
Peggy McIntosh is associate director of the Wellesley Collage Center for Research on Women. This essay is excerpted from Working Paper 189: "White Privilege and Male Privilege: A Personal Account of Coming To See Correspondences through Work in Women's Studies" (1988), by Peggy McIntosh.
"I was taught to see racism only in individual acts of meanness, not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group."
DAILY EFFECTS OF WHITE PRIVILEGE
I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.
1) I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2) I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
3) If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
4) I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
5) I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
6) I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
7) When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
8) I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
9) If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
10) I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.
11) I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
12) I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
13) Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
14) I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
15) I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
16) I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
17) I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
18) I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
19) I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
20) I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
21) I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
22) I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
23) I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
24) I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.
25) If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I have not been singled out because of my race.
26) I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
27) I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
28) I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
29) I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
30) If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there is not a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
31) I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
32) My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
33) I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
34) I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
35) I can take a job with an Affirmative Action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
36) If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
37) I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
38) I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
39) I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
40) I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
41) I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
42) I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
43) If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
44) I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
45) I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
46) I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
47) I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
48) I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
49) My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
50) I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.
Peggy McIntosh is associate director of the Wellesley Collage Center for Research on Women. This essay is excerpted from Working Paper 189: "White Privilege and Male Privilege: A Personal Account of Coming To See Correspondences through Work in Women's Studies" (1988), by Peggy McIntosh.
So what if she's white? I've already told you that all of the woke SJWs who have personally attacked me were white.
I appreciate that she, unlike the plagiarized version I've seen numerous times, actually limits herself to talking about her own experiences, using the pronoun 'I'; rather than projecting those experiences onto others by using the pronoun 'you'. But I still do disagree with some of her points which INHO betray a certain level of bias.
She does mention that white privilege does intersect with other factors, but in her opinion race is still the dominant factor influencing her experiences of privilege. So when she talks about being able to afford to buy or rent a house in the area she would like, I do take issue with that. While race does impact socio-economic status, there are still millions of white people who cannot afford to live in a nice or safe neighborhood or part of town.
I still don't understand what she's trying to get at with her point about being able to easily avoid people of other races. Why would this be important to anyone of any race, unless they themselves are racist? This doesn't cast a favorable light onto Ms. McIntoch.
She says she can speak up to a powerful male figure without putting her race on trial. I find this interesting since she is a woman. It is common knowledge that when women speak up to powerful men, that immediately invites demeaning and derogatory comments about both her as an individual and women in general. By choosing to focus on race while excluding all other demographic factors, she is deliberately skewing the reality of the situation to a great degree.
I've already addressed the claim that non-whites are poorly represented in the music industry. Absolutely everyone know that is a blatant, bold-faced lie.
And I dare any white person who is not already an established author or celebrity to write up something, and then go out and see for yourself how 'easy' it is to find a publisher for it.
I have to say that overall, while Ms McIntoch does bring up a number of good points, the fact remains that her list still contains a number of poorly thought out and inaccurate points.
Last edited by dorkseid on 14 Sep 2021, 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
14 Sep 2021, 2:09 pm
14 Sep 2021, 2:19 pm
Dox47 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Aww ... the white supremacists are getting picked on ... they can go cry me a river.
Who is this directed at? I don't see anyone advocating supremacy of the white race in any way, just people objecting to being stereotyped based on their skin color.
I asked pretty much the same thing, and am still waiting for an answer. Fnord has posted in the thread since both of us have asked, but is still ignoring this question.
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 30,720
Location: Right over your left shoulder
14 Sep 2021, 4:21 pm
dorkseid wrote:
At the very least, I clearly understand matters better than she does.
I think people shouldn't talk about matters they are clearly too stupid to accurately comprehend.
I think people shouldn't talk about matters they are clearly too stupid to accurately comprehend.
Do you have a disagreement that goes beyond calling her stupid because you disagree with her?
14 Sep 2021, 4:38 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Do you have a disagreement that goes beyond calling her stupid because you disagree with her?
I think the OP was an extended critique.
funeralxempire
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Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 30,720
Location: Right over your left shoulder
14 Sep 2021, 5:02 pm
Dox47 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Do you have a disagreement that goes beyond calling her stupid because you disagree with her?
I think the OP was an extended critique.
I saw that flailing, but much of it just simply misses the point like drawing attention that being white and ND doesn't grant one NT privilege. Someone didn't understand what they were commenting on, but that wasn't Ms. McIntosh.
14 Sep 2021, 5:59 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
At the very least, I clearly understand matters better than she does.
I think people shouldn't talk about matters they are clearly too stupid to accurately comprehend.
I think people shouldn't talk about matters they are clearly too stupid to accurately comprehend.
Do you have a disagreement that goes beyond calling her stupid because you disagree with her?
I pointed out multiple of examples from her list that are factually inaccurate.
14 Sep 2021, 6:05 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Do you have a disagreement that goes beyond calling her stupid because you disagree with her?
I think the OP was an extended critique.
I saw that flailing, but much of it just simply misses the point like drawing attention that being white and ND doesn't grant one NT privilege. Someone didn't understand what they were commenting on, but that wasn't Ms. McIntosh.
I pointed out points that were factually inaccurate which had nothing to do with neurology. For example, saying that all white people can afford to live in nice areas or that people of color are underrepresented in music.
Can you point to any specific thing I said and demonstrate how I'm misunderstanding it? No. No you cannot.
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 30,720
Location: Right over your left shoulder
14 Sep 2021, 6:41 pm
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