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QuantumChemist
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09 Oct 2021, 9:11 am

funeralxempire wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
We will become just like them if we follow everything that is being asked in the protest. It would be a rather short matter of time before we see Animal Farm actually happen here. All we need is the wrong dictator to join the play in progress.


Perhaps if everything in the wildest imaginations of a small number of people who might participate (as though those people represent the majority of participants), but I still don't see where their goals amount to the Soviets winning.

It sounds like baseless hysteria.


The same could have been said about a certain presidential campaign that almost no one gave a chance to back in 2016. That did not end so well for our country on 01/06/2021. We almost ended up with a dictator and we are still a house divided. History has a tendency to repeat itself to those who do not pay close attention to it.

Be careful what you want now, as it may come back to haunt you later on.



funeralxempire
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09 Oct 2021, 9:39 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
We will become just like them if we follow everything that is being asked in the protest. It would be a rather short matter of time before we see Animal Farm actually happen here. All we need is the wrong dictator to join the play in progress.


Perhaps if everything in the wildest imaginations of a small number of people who might participate (as though those people represent the majority of participants), but I still don't see where their goals amount to the Soviets winning.

It sounds like baseless hysteria.


The same could have been said about a certain presidential campaign that almost no one gave a chance to back in 2016. That did not end so well for our country on 01/06/2021. We almost ended up with a dictator and we are still a house divided. History has a tendency to repeat itself to those who do not pay close attention to it.

Be careful what you want now, as it may come back to haunt you later on.


You're still not actually substantiating the fears you're trying to monger.


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aghogday
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09 Oct 2021, 9:42 am



i Suppose there is some Good News And That
is that The Most 'Backward State' in Appropriating
the Most Ignorant Policies in Government During A

Pandemic; Namely DeSaTaNiS And His Insistence

That A Pandemic Have A Best Petri Dish

State to Propagate in

By Not Allowing

Children to Be
Protected And Mask
Mandated in Schools...

By God, Yes, WE THE PEOPLE

HAVE SPOKEN IN FLORIDA

AND MINIMUM WAGE IS GOING UP
TO 15 DOLLARS PER HOUR INCREMENTALLY
EACH YEAR BY 2026 AS THE 10 DOLLAR MILESTONE

REACHED THIS YEAR IN SEPTEMBER FOR REAL; Which of
Course Means That Many Places have Already Succumbed

to the Reality of Having to Pay their Workers up to 15 Dollars
An Hour or So Now to Both Entice Folks to Apply And Retain Employees

too With Even Some Retail Places Providing College Education Benefits Like Target...

Where i Live Again, It's More of An Employee's Market Now More Than Ever Before...

And It's True Some Folks are extending Their Childhoods, Even Married, And Yes

Literally Playing Video Games Day And Night Together At Their Parent's Residence

As There is No Law That Says they either have to go to School or Go To Work; As

Much as that might

Butt Hurt Folks

Who Think

They Have A Right

to Tell them How to Live
Their Life As Long as Their
Rich Boomer Parents are Okay With it all...

Leaving Them Enough Inheritance, if they Don't
Squander it At Least, Just to be another one of the Rich

Folks Who Do Not Work in Society; Yes There Are Many

Huge Homes in this Area With Many Cars of Offspring in
The Road in Front of the Homes...

Yet Hey, They Have 5 Bedrooms

And 3 Baths that

Are

Still
Getting
Used; Land of the

Wealthy and Fortunate

Enough to Get it all Free...

Thing is YES Some of those
Folks Have Mental Illnesses With
A Life Devoid of Meaning and Purpose...

Video Games Will Only Do So Much to Satisfy that Human Need...

There Are No Real Free Rides in Life; We Are Just Another Mammal
Social Species Evolved for Intermittent Gratification Where Not Struggling

Enough May

Be As Painful

Or More Numb

Than Struggling A Whole Lot...
First World Human Problems Indeed...

i Haven't Worked For A Penny Since 2008...

Yet Yes, i've Worked Productively More as
An Artist in Dance And Song Nearly Every
Waking Hour AND More to Bring Free Joy to Others

Throughout

My Whole Community And Globally As Well Online;

Where if i was Only Paid Minimum Wage at 10 Dollars

An Hour for What i Do For 16 Hours, 7 Days A Week; Let's

Do the Math, Yep Close to 60,000 Dollars A Year; Yet You See

For me at Least

Taking the Time

And Effort to Manage
That Much More Money

Wouldn't Be Worth A few

Seconds of Doing What i Love to Do;

Considering, i for one Already Have more

Money that i'll ever Spend in this Lifetime Now...

My Wife is a Different Story, Yet Her 'Allowance' is Ample Indeed Hehe...

It's Not So Much That i Hate Money; it Would Just Be An Annoyance to Make
Any More to Waste
my Precious
Seconds

Dealing
With the Numbers...

And to Fill Out Damn
Tax Returns That Actually
Require Thought to Do Hehe...

i Haven't Paid Federal Income Taxes
Since 2008 Now Either... Like i Said

Pay All the Loans Off and Beat The System
As You Take Advantage of the Laws as they Stand...

And if You Wanna have meaning and purpose in life EACH DAY

Bring Hundreds of Smiles to Folks Everywhere You Go FOR FREE

And Make Sure You Go to Places That Folks Totally Ignore

You or Do Their Best to try to Bring You Down as Again

No Heaven

Without

A Taste
of Yucky Hell Either...

i Come here And Folks
Try to Intimate i am Nuts...

i Go to Other Places and Young
Woman Copy My Comments and
Dedicate Entire Blog Posts to me...

Links of Course on Demand And True
There are Over 2,000 Photos of the Most
Beautiful and Smartest College Girls in my
Area Ecstatically Smiling with me in Nights

Of Freest Dance

They'll Never

Forget...

And Again

i Did IT/ Do IT All my
Way And Empty Pocketed

As the First Thing i Did when
i Retired is Pour All that Yucky
Stuff in my Wife's Purse And All
She has to Do is ALL THE ACCOUNTING

(Everything Else Around the Home Too as
She Insists She is the Best And i am No Good at
It; So i Simply Reply Yes Dear Have it Your way)

DUTIES EXCEPT FOR DOING THE TAXES...
the part that doesn't require any effort...

See How this works?

Do It Your Own

Way if You

Can Beat
The System
And Make Heaven
On Earth Your Life For Real too...

And Remember, i Started out at
Three Dollars And Sixty-Nine Cents
Serving Shoes At A Military Bowling
Center After Three College Degrees in '84

Working Starting at 16, my Way Through
A Triple Major Then of 3 Degrees
Working 3 Part Time Jobs With A
Full School Workload too; My Peers

Called me 'Superman'; At Least the

(They Did at Work too Through the

Last 4 Promotions in the Last 5 Years)

Younger And Older Women of Course As Usual;

Yet i Was No Fool, Just A Person Who
Had IQ Off The Charts And the Social

IQ of Less
Than Folks

With Standard
IQ of 70 or So

For What it took

to Both Be Happy
And Make Other Folks Happy For Free..

It Didn't Take me too Long to Ace That
Test at the University of Bowling Center

(And Yes it Was A Federal Civil Service Job)

HAha for Almost 2 Decades After That

i Got The 'Real Job' And 4 Promotions in
5 Years Just in the Nick of Time to increase
my Pay by 8 Times And Win a High 3 Years

of Retirement Pay

For the Rest of my

Life That is Only

Going up 60 Percent
More Once i Reach 62
Next June 6th and For me at

Least, it's More of An Annoyance

to Deal With The Extra Money Still Coming...

Yet it's true My Wife Will Likely Find A Way
to take care of that too.. hehe...

You Can/Will Either Work to

Love Life and Make

Others Happy

Or You

Will/Can Work

To Make Money...
Already Did that
For 33 Years Ain't
Going Back to Purgatory Again...

Not Even if Minimum Wage Goes
Up to a Million Dollar an Hour...

If You Can And Will Fathom

The Kind of Riches i Earn Within...

Less than About 1 Percent of the Folks in
The United States At Least have any clue

What i'm even talking about...

For the God

Here Wears

Paper Green Yes

Lovers of Metal

Vehicles And

Huge Homes That
Are God And Close Enough
To Spit on Neighbor Home God

Places too Without even a Frigging Tree in the
Neighborhood; Just Systemizing Science Cut Green Grass...

Systemizing Science Cut Green Grass, Indeed the American Way...

Paper Dolls Cut The Same, Just Blowing In the Wind Going No Where Truly Up...

Exceptions

Of Course

Do Apply

And The 1 Percent
Figure Only Applies
Really to places like
The place i LiVE iN Trump Town USA...

The Place, Ironically, With the Most Christian
Churches Per Square Mile As Noted in Record Books in the
United States; And Yes Sadly, The Place Most Lost From the

Mystical

Message

Encoded

By Metaphor

in the Story of Jesus...

Kingdom of Heaven Within... ACTUALLY DOING IT

NOW... It is Ours to Make or Break Together Again...

So i Dance

So i Sing Free...

"UP uP AWay mY
BeAUTiFuL BaLLooN YOuR SoNG"



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Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


funeralxempire
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09 Oct 2021, 9:44 am

Jakki wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
We will become just like them if we follow everything that is being asked in the protest. It would be a rather short matter of time before we see Animal Farm actually happen here. All we need is the wrong dictator to join the play in progress.


Perhaps if everything in the wildest imaginations of a small number of people who might participate (as though those people represent the majority of participants), but I still don't see where their goals amount to the Soviets winning.

It sounds like baseless hysteria.


These ideas are a great hope.. preferably without bad dictators . But this event needs to be
advertised much much better . and major notifications , with some major workers unions involved,
to get behind this .....seems people know what is right , but noone seems to want toj act on these things or are afraid.


All one can do is try to promote the event and get more people to consider participation, just like anything that goes viral. I'm curious to see if they get support from any major unions but even if not, the people who make up the union can drag their leadership towards support from the bottom up, it doesn't always need to come from the top down.


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kraftiekortie
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09 Oct 2021, 9:44 am

I haven’t heard talk about a general strike in the place where I work.

There is the tendency for folks on both sides of an issue to make exaggerated demands. Then they sit down, and hash it out, leading to a compromise.

It did take lots of fight for the 8 hours a day, 5 days a week workweek to take hold.

No. I don’t believe we should be scared of a “commie takeover.” But many organizations which speak of general strikes and other sorts of protests which involve blocking streets and such happen to be of at least a vaguely Marxist orientation.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 09 Oct 2021, 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

naturalplastic
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09 Oct 2021, 9:53 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Somehow, George Jetson worked 3-day weeks, about 4 hours a day.


Yeah...back when I was in highschool in the early Seventies- that was the popular wisdom about the future. That the work week would get shorter. like those essays about "the workplace" we copied in typing class- all predicted that in the future we will have 28 hour work weeks, by the 2000, or even 1980.

Instead the work week stablized at 40 hours, and then gradually got longer by today.



kraftiekortie
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09 Oct 2021, 10:09 am

It’s still 40 hours, five days a week for most “non-exempt” workers in the US. By law, in most states, they must get paid “time and a half” after working 40 hours in a week. I’m speaking mostly of hourly workers (and some on salary, too).

Many times, it’s the workers themselves who extend their hours…..seeking to buy a house, provide for their families, just make more money in general.



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10 Oct 2021, 7:36 am

On a practical level, this is doomed to fail:

- There are too many demands, which are disconnected from anything that employers can actually deliver. Strikes are most useful for achieving concessions in negotiations, but in this situation, there is nothing employers could do to placate their striking workers.

- There is no strike fund. Successful strikes take a long time, which means a lot of lost income - this is even more important for a general strike where the costs are spread across multiple employers. As this strike is not being organised by a union with a large strike fund, people will quickly return to work.

- Internet leftists consistently overestimate their ability to mass strike. Remember the Women's Strike of 2nd October? No, because barely anyone participated. I remember an attempt to protest transphobic media articles by striking - again, almost nobody participated. Unless you're facing a personal situation which presents an immediate threat to yourself, it's hard to get motivated to strike - most people will not strike for principles.

I think it's silly to pretend that implementing these measures would turn the US into Airstrip 1. However, a lot of the ideas are bad:

- A $20 federal minimum wage would cause job losses, particularly in low-income areas. A $12 minimum wage seems more realistic and less likely to have harmful effects - and it would represent a significant wage increase.

- Working 4 days a week is already an option.

- 38 days a year would be right at the global high end, and combined with a 4 day week it would be far higher than any country in the world. However, it's pretty disgraceful that the US doesn't guarantee paid leave, making it the only advanced economy in the world to not do so.

- Comprehensive universal single pay healthcare would be extremely expensive, and again, isn't offered by a single country in the whole world. This system would probably lead to very long waiting lists for healthcare and effectively force a lot of people to go private and get into medical debt just as they currently would. Again, the current American situation is very bad, but the demand here is poorly thought-out.

- Doubling corporation tax is a bad idea. Most economists favour cutting corporation tax - particularly as the burden largely rests with workers and consumers. If you combined this with a $20 minimum wage, then it wouldn't be passed on to workers... but workers would quickly find themselves out of a job.

- A tax on revenue ("AMT") is plainly stupid. It would put low-margin businesses out of business.

- Most forms of "wealth tax" are difficult to raise, inefficient, and economically harmful. Most countries who have had general wealth taxes have abandoned them, and only one, Spain, still taxes at above 1%. Wealth taxes encourage capital flight and discourage investment. They also discourage public listings of companies, which makes inequality worse. It would be more sensible to propose a tax on specific forms of wealth that cannot be created, destroyed, or moved, such as land.

- Parental leave - support, although I would prefer shared leave to be LGBT+ inclusive and encourage men to do their share of childcare.

- Right-to-organise - depends upon exactly what is meant by this. In general, the right to organise has to be a fundamental right in any capitalist society. However, it is possible that specific forms of this "right" might actually involve taking away people's rights, such as the right to not join a union, or start a new union if you don't like the current one.

- End Citizen's United - support, but again I'd do things differently - focus on the politician rather than the donor. Limit campaign spending, and then it keeps money out of politics altogether.

- 100% carbon negative economy by 2030 - this is nonsense. You can't be 100% carbon negative - 100% of what? It's not realistic or desirable for the US to be carbon-negative by 2030 - you simply don't have, and can't get, the infrastructure. The only solution would be to deliberately cause the sort of recession which is unthinkable to modern Americans, the "no food on the shelves" type of recession. Carbon neutrality by 2050 is both ambitious and realistic, but net-negative technology will be necessary.

- A Green New Deal - not in the form that has been kicking around DC for the past few years, which discourages several important technologies and comes packaged with some outright bad ideas, like protectionism and a jobs guarantee.



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10 Oct 2021, 9:56 am

For all the reasons Walrus cited above, I reiterate that I believe this “General Strike” will be just another media-hyped non-event, with the usual flakes and freaks participating — only this, and nothing more.



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10 Oct 2021, 9:59 am

I don't believe that this is likely to achieve all of it's stated goals and that most likely nothing will be directly accomplished except possibly demonstrating how labour has the ability to exert more pressure than the people complaining about labour shortages realize.

As for the impacts of raising minimum wage? Tough s**t, if your business relies on paying less than a living wage it doesn't have a viable business model and shouldn't be subsidized by underpaying the people who keep it running.


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10 Oct 2021, 10:17 am

funeralxempire wrote:
I don't believe that this is likely to achieve all of it's stated goals and that most likely nothing will be directly accomplished except possibly demonstrating how labour has the ability to exert more pressure than the people complaining about labour shortages realize.
It will also demonstrate a more simple fact: Stage a protest, and the Media will come.
funeralxempire wrote:
As for the impacts of raising minimum wage? Tough s**t, if your business relies on paying less than a living wage it doesn't have a viable business model and shouldn't be subsidized by underpaying the people who keep it running.
This is why many small-scale restaurants have gone out of business. Relying on customer’s gratuities to compensate for low wages when customers are few and far-between results in the wait-staff quitting. Without servers or customers, there is no impetus to remain in business.

Now Main Street's whitewashed windows and vacant stores
Seems like there ain't nobody wants to come down here no more
They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks
Foreman says "These jobs are going, boys
And they ain't coming back
To your hometown."


— Bruce Springsteen, “My Hometown”



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10 Oct 2021, 10:36 am

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I don't believe that this is likely to achieve all of it's stated goals and that most likely nothing will be directly accomplished except possibly demonstrating how labour has the ability to exert more pressure than the people complaining about labour shortages realize.
It will also demonstrate a more simple fact: Stage a protest, and the Media will come.


Which isn't a bad thing, even if the dishonest and sensationalist way mainstream media will report won't be directly beneficial to this cause it will contribute to more people seeing through their bias and abandoning or at least being more critical of their reporting. It isn't just conservatives who don't trust mainstream media.


Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
As for the impacts of raising minimum wage? Tough s**t, if your business relies on paying less than a living wage it doesn't have a viable business model and shouldn't be subsidized by underpaying the people who keep it running.
This is why many small-scale restaurants have gone out of business. Relying on customer’s gratuities to compensate for low wages when customers are few and far-between results in the wait-staff quitting. Without servers or customers, there is no impetus to remain in business.

Now Main Street's whitewashed windows and vacant stores
Seems like there ain't nobody wants to come down here no more
They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks
Foreman says "These jobs are going, boys
And they ain't coming back
To your hometown."


— Bruce Springsteen, “My Hometown”


This is at the core of the overall issue. People aren't willing to do what's expected for the compensation offered because they understand it isn't a fair deal. No one wants to be a peasant and if that's all that will be offered why would someone waste their life earning money for someone else when they know they'll never get more than the crumbs that fall off the table?


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Fnord
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10 Oct 2021, 10:40 am

Why do these “peasants” expect and demand that someone else hire them and pay them more than their labors are worth? Why do they not band together and collectively start up their own businesses and pay themselves the wages they believe they deserve?



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10 Oct 2021, 10:43 am

Fnord wrote:
Why do these “peasants” expect and demand that someone else hire them and pay them more than their labors are worth? Why do they not band together and collectively start up their own businesses and pay themselves the wages they believe they deserve?


Lol, 'more than they're worth'. When did a living wage become more than someone is worth? If a business won't offer a living wage why would someone waste their time there?

It's a lot easier for businesses to collude to drive wages down than it is for the working class to collude to drive them up, that's why raising minimum wage is the appropriate strategy. If businesses won't do what right and the state refuses to intervene that leaves mass action as the only remaining option.


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10 Oct 2021, 10:53 am

So they go “on strike” from jobs they do not have … who will notice? Who will care?

Look up “Day Without a Mexican” — not the movies, but the actual “strike”, and you will see what I am getting at.



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10 Oct 2021, 10:57 am

If they don't need us they should stop complaining about labour shortages.
But, you mention jobs they don't have, how exactly do the people working those jobs not have those jobs? :lol:


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