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Mountain Goat
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04 Jul 2022, 8:36 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I don't disagree but that's besides the point considering the main disagreement is over who is entitled to consent with who and who should be entitled to consent with who.


It has already been found that the person in question was not entitled to receive consent and is, thus, a sex offender.

I doubt she was really that surprised since the laws are well-known. I would’ve assumed that I couldn’t sleep with a 14 year old at 19, not that I would’ve wanted to (ewwww!!).

It depends what they did while they were in bed, as one could be prosecuted for underage snoring? (Ok. I will be serious... Not that it helps because each time I try to write you lot write so quick I can't post what I write and I have to quickly post to ammend what I put just to get the reply sent. :D Wow, you lot can type fast!)


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04 Jul 2022, 8:39 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
The girl in the second story should / could be charged as well, I would think.
That's for using false ID, lying under police investigation, intent to frame a person, etc.


I would agree although I’d expect her offenses to be lessened by the fact that she was underage. Being a victim of statutory rape, she may have learned her lesson, too. Still, I think some classes are in order.


I didn't really mean sex charges.
I meant using fake ID, etc.
I'd have to read the story again because I just skimmed it quickly.
I hope that didn't sound like victim blaming.
It's just that I've seen first-hand how court works in these cases.
The guy's lawyer would demand some sort of charge against her given the circumstance.
The nightclub would be liable as well.


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04 Jul 2022, 8:41 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Cool! I’ll ask the next 10 year old victim if he was a victim. If he says “no,” the guilty should go free. :roll:

People can be victims without initially realizing it. The negative effects can come years later. 14 year olds don’t know “everything” because they are still children.


So wait, it's unreasonable to lump and 19 year old and 14 year old together as peers but somehow you think treating a 14 year old the same as a 10 year old seems reasonable? You're sacrificing logical consistency to gain what exactly? Emotional impact? I guess if that's what you find persuasive.


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04 Jul 2022, 8:42 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
The girl in the second story should / could be charged as well, I would think.
That's for using false ID, lying under police investigation, intent to frame a person, etc.


I would agree although I’d expect her offenses to be lessened by the fact that she was underage. Being a victim of statutory rape, she may have learned her lesson, too. Still, I think some classes are in order.


I didn't really mean sex charges.
I meant using fake ID, etc.
I'd have to read the story again because I just skimmed it quickly.
I hope that didn't sound like victim blaming.
It's just that I've seen first-hand how court works in these cases.
The guy's lawyer would demand some sort of charge against her given the circumstance.
The nightclub would be liable as well.


Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that there was a sex charge against her. I was just referring to the extenuating circumstances in general.

Kids are stupid and do stupid things sometimes.

Probably the family needs additional help or services.



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04 Jul 2022, 8:44 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Cool! I’ll ask the next 10 year old victim if he was a victim. If he says “no,” the guilty should go free. :roll:

People can be victims without initially realizing it. The negative effects can come years later. 14 year olds don’t know “everything” because they are still children.


So wait, it's unreasonable to lump and 19 year old and 14 year old together as peers but somehow you think treating a 14 year old the same as a 10 year old seems reasonable? You're sacrificing logical consistency to gain what exactly? Emotional impact? I guess if that's what you find persuasive.


14 year olds and 10 year olds are both minors.

At what age, do you think, should we start asking victims of abuse whether they feel like they are victims or not?

(It doesn’t really matter since we already have laws in place to protect victims. I don’t need to sound persuasive.)



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04 Jul 2022, 8:47 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
The girl in the second story should / could be charged as well, I would think.
That's for using false ID, lying under police investigation, intent to frame a person, etc.


I would agree although I’d expect her offenses to be lessened by the fact that she was underage. Being a victim of statutory rape, she may have learned her lesson, too. Still, I think some classes are in order.


I didn't really mean sex charges.
I meant using fake ID, etc.
I'd have to read the story again because I just skimmed it quickly.
I hope that didn't sound like victim blaming.
It's just that I've seen first-hand how court works in these cases.
The guy's lawyer would demand some sort of charge against her given the circumstance.
The nightclub would be liable as well.


I feel like the problem is that they might not have enough to make a criminal case against her over using fake ID. Her actions aren't legally a defence on his end, no matter how much good faith effort he can demonstrate to have invested.

Personally I lean more in the direction of everyone gets a warning, learns a lesson and moves on with their lives. Although I'd be fine with having it noted on some level, if only because if someone has more than one incident like this it's harder to treat the second one (after they've seen how seriously it's taken) as an innocent mistake.


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04 Jul 2022, 8:47 pm

Adrian had no choice but to plead guilty to four counts of lewd and lascivious battery of a person under 16.

Lewd and lascivious battery??!

That's a hella lot different than sexual interference or statutory rape.

Let's look that up.

This sounds like something that Florida residents / visitors should know about.

As they say, ignorance of the law is no defence.

https://www.hornsby.com/crimes/sex/lewd ... ttery.html


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04 Jul 2022, 8:53 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
As they say, ignorance of the law is no defence.


People are aware of these laws. It’s not like it’s coming from left field.



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04 Jul 2022, 8:53 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Cool! I’ll ask the next 10 year old victim if he was a victim. If he says “no,” the guilty should go free. :roll:

People can be victims without initially realizing it. The negative effects can come years later. 14 year olds don’t know “everything” because they are still children.


So wait, it's unreasonable to lump and 19 year old and 14 year old together as peers but somehow you think treating a 14 year old the same as a 10 year old seems reasonable? You're sacrificing logical consistency to gain what exactly? Emotional impact? I guess if that's what you find persuasive.


14 year olds and 10 year olds are both minors.

At what age, do you think, should we start asking victims of abuse whether they feel like they are victims or not?

(It doesn’t really matter since we already have laws in place to protect victims. I don’t need to sound persuasive.)


Toddlers and 17 year olds are both minors but that means jackshit.

Let's see, 14 isn't an uncommon AoC meanwhile 10 is pretty much universally considered too low. For the one, it's reasonable to recognize that debate exists meanwhile for the other isn't absurd to insist debate exists.

Treating interactions between teenagers as being between teenagers seems more reasonable than what you admit support for. Using some case of a 10 year old that got raped is just a dishonest appeal to emotion and little more than an attempt to hide where you're actually being criticized underneath something different that can't be.


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04 Jul 2022, 8:55 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Cool! I’ll ask the next 10 year old victim if he was a victim. If he says “no,” the guilty should go free. :roll:

People can be victims without initially realizing it. The negative effects can come years later. 14 year olds don’t know “everything” because they are still children.


So wait, it's unreasonable to lump and 19 year old and 14 year old together as peers but somehow you think treating a 14 year old the same as a 10 year old seems reasonable? You're sacrificing logical consistency to gain what exactly? Emotional impact? I guess if that's what you find persuasive.


14 year olds and 10 year olds are both minors.

At what age, do you think, should we start asking victims of abuse whether they feel like they are victims or not?

(It doesn’t really matter since we already have laws in place to protect victims. I don’t need to sound persuasive.)


Toddlers and 17 year olds are both minors but that means jackshit.

Let's see, 14 isn't an uncommon AoC meanwhile 10 is pretty much universally considered too low. For the one, it's reasonable to recognize that debate exists meanwhile for the other isn't absurd to insist debate exists.

Treating interactions between teenagers as being between teenagers seems more reasonable than what you admit support for. Using some case of a 10 year old that got raped is just a dishonest appeal to emotion and little more than an attempt to hide where you're actually being criticized underneath something different that can't be.


There’s a world of difference between 14 and 19, and the 19 year old almost certainly knew it.



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04 Jul 2022, 8:56 pm

I’m not hiding under emotion. I don’t need to. The law is clearly on my side (and the side of children).



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04 Jul 2022, 8:57 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
As they say, ignorance of the law is no defence.


People are aware of these laws. It’s not like it’s coming from left field.


I'm referring to the fact it specifically says they can't argue that they didn't know the person's age.
Being deceived about age isn't allowed as a defence.

For all we know this girl was 15 years and 11.5 months old.
She obviously looked 16 if not 18+.
I have no reason to believe the guy knew she was 15.

What that means, is guys (and older teen girls) need to be aware of these laws.
I'd say "keep it in your pants".

It's very scary given that people can be misled.

I have a son and I would be sick if he had been deceived like that.
The moral of the story though, is to know the law where you live.

Don't sleep with anyone without absolute certainty of who they are, and of their consent.


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04 Jul 2022, 9:00 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
As they say, ignorance of the law is no defence.


People are aware of these laws. It’s not like it’s coming from left field.


I'm referring to the fact it specifically says they can't argue that they didn't know the person's age.
Being deceived about age isn't allowed as a defence.

For all we know this girl was 15 years and 11.5 months old.
She obviously looked 16 if not 18+.
I have no reason to believe the guy knew she was 15.

What that means, is guys (and older teen girls) need to be aware of these laws.
I'd say "keep it in your pants".

It's very scary given that people can be misled.

I have a son and I would be sick if he had been deceived like that.
The moral of the story though, is to know the law where you live.

Don't sleep with anyone without absolute certainty of who they are, and of their consent.


Maybe she looked like she was 12. It’s impossible to say, especially based on this particular article.

Anyway, yeah, we need to make sure that the people we go to bed with are enthusiastically consenting adults.

I will say that most people are aware of these laws and apparent oversights may not actually be oversights.



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04 Jul 2022, 9:02 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
There’s a world of difference between 14 and 19, and the 19 year old almost certainly knew it.


We appreciate you using your psychic powers to investigate this for us.


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04 Jul 2022, 9:03 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
There’s a world of difference between 14 and 19, and the 19 year old almost certainly knew it.


We appreciate you using your psychic powers to investigate this for us.


Thank the judge.



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04 Jul 2022, 9:04 pm

Side story:

I found naked sexting on my son's phone when he was about 15.
The girl was his age or possibly a few months younger.

I went absolutely BAT SHITTT about it.

It was completely consensual, but I told him the girl's parents could charge him.
I know they were both underage but who knows what parents will do.
Who knows how long those photos would be saved on her phone?
Who knows how they could be used against him one day?

Plus ... I didn't want him to continue that behaviour when he was 16 or older, in case of the girl's age.

I swear to God that more than a decade later he still recalls it being the biggest parental meltdown I ever had.
I don't think he's ever done anything like that again.


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