Sick of extreme right views

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DW_a_mom
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24 Aug 2022, 1:49 pm

Raptor wrote:

babybird wrote:

Raptor wrote:

I wonder if I should start a thread titled “Sick of extreme left views’”
:chin:

Go for it

I don’t know, might be considered an act of trollery if I did it. Different rules ya know.
Just sayin’....

I find extreme political views to be an issue whether they come from the left or the right. While on rare occasions "extreme" is actually innovative, out-there thinking; more often it is simply extreme, impractical, and divisive. I may be a little less likely to knee jerk think an extreme left view is destructive, but I do usually see the flaws in the thinking. One caution, though: I find that people on right often ascribe views to the left that do not actually exist. But, yeah, I don't mind either agreeing with you something on the left is "bad," or pointing out the nuance you may be missing that might make it more palatable. I strongly believe in everyone trying to understand each other, and battling it out to find the best path.

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kraftiekortie
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24 Aug 2022, 2:40 pm

A "progressive" viewpoint is not an example of "extreme Left views."

TwilightPrincess
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24 Aug 2022, 2:42 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

A "progressive" viewpoint is not an example of "extreme Left views."

It depends on who you ask. :lol:

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CubsBullsBears
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24 Aug 2022, 5:12 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

I strongly believe in everyone trying to understand each other, and battling it out to find the best path.

^This!

Unfortunately, there’s times where people on the right make it impossible for me to understand them, like the ones I already mentioned.

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kraftiekortie
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24 Aug 2022, 5:20 pm

Some people on the “extreme Left” are rather similar.

I don’t believe what is espoused by someone like Bernie Sanders is “extreme Left.”

To me, “extreme Left” folks are people who espouse something like Marxism and socialism in an extreme way.

The_Walrus
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24 Aug 2022, 5:30 pm

shlaifu wrote:

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:

.I plan on creating a lot of jobs in my life using Reaganomics.

Reagan was so far left by today's standards - even Bernie can only dream of a top marginal income tax of 50% now.

We are living in the wet dream of neoliberalism and the only reason why Reaganomics is a rightwing ideal is because of the framing - de facto, Reagan won, and he won on every front, decades ago.

And I think it's clear that it isn't working, and if it keeps not working, the angry poor will get so angry they will follow anyone who promises to tear it all up. It's no longer Hayek or Keynes - it has been Hayek for a generation now. It's Keynes, Hitler or Stalin again. But this time with nukes and an American population armed to the teeth.
Enjoy your civil war

I don’t think this is true. For one thing it misrepresents Keynes! The new neoclassical synthesis (what you are calling “neoliberalism”) owes an awful lot to Keynes - in fact it is often called neo-Keynesianism. Your current government in the US is very “Keynesian” in the casual sense of “government spending stimulates the economy”, although they aren’t taking a genuine Keynesian approach to tackling inflation. Even Trump handed out “stimulus checks”.

Dox47
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24 Aug 2022, 5:32 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

One caution, though: I find that people on right often ascribe views to the left that do not actually exist.

Other way around is much more common; as a liberal, you need to go out of your way to hear conservative views, i.e. tune in FOX or something, but liberal views are the default across most media. I'll have to dig it up some time, but there is data supporting this, conservatives routinely outscore liberals when it comes to accurately appraising the political beliefs of the other side.

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The_Walrus
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24 Aug 2022, 5:39 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Bernie Sanders wasn’t advocating for genocide of the rich or anything like that, but he did propose policies that were far to the left of any seen in true democracies. He wanted government spending to be something like 70% of GDP, a federal jobs guarantee paying everyone $15 an hour, and the banning of private healthcare. He also proposed forced mutualisation of workplaces.

Now OK, maybe this isn’t “extreme socialism” because it isn’t proposing violence, it’s just electoralism. Fair enough. But I’d then say you’ve got to apply the same standard to the right, which I’m personally not happy with. I’m not saying your definition isn’t right, or isn’t useful, because I think it is useful to distinguish between electoral and non-electoral philosophies, or between genocidal and non-genocidal philosophies. But personally I want to be able to describe people who want to radically shake up society and the economy as “extreme” even if they’re peaceful. Maybe a distinction between “far” and “extreme” is useful?

kraftiekortie
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24 Aug 2022, 5:49 pm

I sense that the “true Bernie” wouldn’t have gone “that far”— that he was espousing some of those rather extreme views as sort of a “basis for bargaining.”

Even Sanders knows, I’m sure, that the banning of private health care and 70% of GDP spent on social programs would be unelectable positions, ultimately.

We are actually at $15 an hour minimum wage in a few areas, with many others getting close, and reaching that level in a few years.

CubsBullsBears
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24 Aug 2022, 7:38 pm

Dox47 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

One caution, though: I find that people on right often ascribe views to the left that do not actually exist.

That doesn’t change the fact that the right has homophobes, conspiracy theorists, politicians who won’t do anything about gun violence, and people who are against abortion without any exceptions on their side.

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cyberdad
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24 Aug 2022, 7:50 pm

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:

Poor people dont really pay federal income taxes but billionaires do for the most part.Have you ever got a job from a poor person?Thats why we need Reaganomics forever.Someone who works at McDonalds making min wage pays less taxes than a someone in the one percent living off of McDonalds stock in the form of dividends.Poor people need to start paying federal income taxes and not getting as much back at tax day.

This actually illustrates the fundamental problem with reagonomics. The millions of poor/working class white people who voted Trump were not stupid, they know the republican ethos is to give money back to big business through lower taxes for the rich. The problem with laisse fairre economics is that the rich want to maximise profit so if there is any move to force wages up then they move jobs offshore or across the border to Mexico.

So why do poor whites vote Trump? answer. because the fear of foreigners and minorities > then their own self-interest. This was demonstrated in Britain with Brexit. British people were willing to give up all the financial benefits and jobs linked to being a member of the EU in order to stop immigration. It's not rocket science.

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24 Aug 2022, 8:07 pm

CubsBullsBears wrote:

And?

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24 Aug 2022, 8:21 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Go for it, buddy!

It'll probably be of the same the "sick of extreme Right views" thread.

To be honest, it wouldn't be anywhere near as much fun as it would have been ten, give or take, years ago here. This thread is four days old and only has four pages

. Back in the day it would have been fifteen plus pages of general. bickering, crying, personal attacks, dog whistles, straw men, red herrings, ad hominems, and acts of trollery so profound that decorum prohibits listing them here. We had some wonderful trolls that really kept the place hopping.

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Dox47
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24 Aug 2022, 8:52 pm

cyberdad wrote:

So why do poor whites vote Trump? answer. because the fear of foreigners and minorities > then their own self-interest.

LOL, no, sticking it to the libs was and is the only secret sauce with Trump.

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shlaifu
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25 Aug 2022, 1:39 am

cyberdad wrote:

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:

The only Person I know who voted for Brexit did so because the EU is not a democratic institution in which politicians are accountable to their voters. - it's by so by its core design.
My argument was that Britain and the city of London in particular was the most rotten part of it all.

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25 Aug 2022, 1:41 am

The_Walrus wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Bernie Sanders is a lot of things, what he is not is woke
Bernie Sanders Condemns Threats Against Ann Coulter Speech At Berkeley

Quote:

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) criticized the security threats to a speaking event by conservative pundit Ann Coulter at the University of California, Berkeley that prompted the school to postpone the talk.

“I don’t like this. I don’t like it,” Sanders told The Huffington Post after speaking at a rally for Omaha mayoral candidate Heath Mello on Thursday night. “Obviously Ann Coulter’s outrageous ― to my mind, off the wall. But you know, people have a right to give their two cents-worth, give a speech, without fear of violence and intimidation.”

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