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Zonder
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15 Mar 2008, 6:45 am

graemephillips wrote:
but living a lifestyle of faggotry


To clarify, he lived a heterosexual lifestyle and I am a product of that. The unbelievable shock was that he hid the homosexual aspect of his life so well that we (perhaps naively) had no idea.

My father experienced tremendous tragedy in his life. I was told by his brother that he was sexually abused by a cousin. His mother committed suicide when he was six and his father died when he was eighteen. I also believe that he was on the autistic spectrum somewhere. I cannot judge him.

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graemephillips
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15 Mar 2008, 10:27 am

Zonder wrote:
graemephillips wrote:
but living a lifestyle of faggotry


To clarify, he lived a heterosexual lifestyle and I am a product of that. The unbelievable shock was that he hid the homosexual aspect of his life so well that we (perhaps naively) had no idea.

My father experienced tremendous tragedy in his life. I was told by his brother that he was sexually abused by a cousin. His mother committed suicide when he was six and his father died when he was eighteen. I also believe that he was on the autistic spectrum somewhere. I cannot judge him.

Z


It is the same with evangelicals such as Ted Haggard (or should that be Faggard?). He was outwardly living a fully heterosexual lifestyle, but at the same time, he was paying for the services of gigolos.

I don't know if you are implying that his darker side is the result of the abuse he endured as a child. People having outlandish sexual preferences because of abuse endured during childhood is something I have read about frequently. I heard one story where it came out during a counselling session that a wife wanted her husband to whip her as part of sado-masochistic play because of abuse she had endured at the hands of her father as a child.

It is certainly hard to speculate about whether people were on the autistic spectrum if they are no longer alive.



Zonder
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15 Mar 2008, 10:36 am

graemephillips wrote:
It is the same with evangelicals such as Ted Haggard (or should that be Faggard?).


I just felt that some clarification might be helpful, but what you say does bring up a question. Do you think my father is in hell?

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graemephillips
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15 Mar 2008, 1:26 pm

Zonder wrote:
graemephillips wrote:
It is the same with evangelicals such as Ted Haggard (or should that be Faggard?).


I just felt that some clarification might be helpful, but what you say does bring up a question. Do you think my father is in hell?

Z


Do I think your father is in hell? I really couldn't answer that one and I really wouldn't like to guess. As far as I am concerned, the best way we can guess something like this is by knowing whether someone was in a state of repentance at the time of their death. By your accounts, he didn't live a blameless life, but then neither of us can claim to have done and it wouldn't make sense for God to just send everyone to hell. However, there are various parts of the New Testament where we are told what we have to do to gain salvation: - obviously it would be no good if God told us salvation was available and didn't tell us how.

From what I know of the scriptures, I can only recall one instance where Jesus explicitly said whether or not a specific person would receive salvation. This was on the cross where one of the thieves crucified alongside him asked Jesus to save them all and was rebuked the other one, who asked Jesus to remember him in the next world. Jesus replied that truthfully, he would be joining him in paradise that day. This incident is described in Luke 23:39-43.



Phagocyte
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15 Mar 2008, 3:07 pm

rmctagg09 wrote:
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What a nice and respectful thread.

I am not a Christian but I hope you find friends here that are. I understand how this forum could be an oppressive place for people who are believers to post, and I'm sorry it is that way. In an ideal world, all people of every belief (and non-belief) could have respect and tolerance for those who believe something different.

I am agnostic, but that doesn't mean I can't find beauty and solace in the world's religions.


Thank you, its so hard to be a Christian when so many people try to tear you down for believing the way they do.


Everybody of every belief does that. It's hard to believe in anything.


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aspidrumchick
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06 Apr 2008, 8:57 pm

I'm a Christian, but I, too, am highly respectful of others and their religions. I have many Non-Christian friends. One of my best friends is homosexual too. To me as long as God and I are tight and stuff, I'm fine. I'm also very willing to talk about my beliefs if people ask about them.


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graemephillips
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07 Apr 2008, 2:34 am

aspidrumchick wrote:
I'm a Christian, but I, too, am highly respectful of others and their religions. I have many Non-Christian friends. One of my best friends is homosexual too. To me as long as God and I are tight and stuff, I'm fine. I'm also very willing to talk about my beliefs if people ask about them.


Enabled and not disabled? That sounds like it might become tomorrow's cliché, just like the made-up word "handicapable" has become.

I would at this point point out the difference between tolerance and acceptance. I tolerate other religions (in the same way as you would tolerate a cold, but not accept it) because I think all governments in the world should run on the principle of libertarianism. However, I don't accept them because accepting them would be saying that Jesus was a liar when he said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No-one comes to the father except by me." Accepting them means viewing them as legitimate, which I don't.

As for homosexuals, they are free to live their lives as they choose in our libertarian society. Also, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was often hanging out with tax collectors and hookers: - maybe a prostitute in biblical times was, in this sense, analogous to a homosexual today. Similarly, there was the incident where Jesus refused to condemn the woman caught red-handed committing adultery. However, all these things don't mean Christians can pretend homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle in God's sight: - the practice is opposed in both the Old and New Testaments.



iamnotaparakeet
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07 Apr 2008, 5:30 pm

Phagocyte wrote:
rmctagg09 wrote:
kitschinator wrote:
What a nice and respectful thread.

I am not a Christian but I hope you find friends here that are. I understand how this forum could be an oppressive place for people who are believers to post, and I'm sorry it is that way. In an ideal world, all people of every belief (and non-belief) could have respect and tolerance for those who believe something different.

I am agnostic, but that doesn't mean I can't find beauty and solace in the world's religions.


Thank you, its so hard to be a Christian when so many people try to tear you down for believing the way they do.


Everybody of every belief does that. It's hard to believe in anything.


Let's test that. I'll make a poll.



fabshelly
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07 Apr 2008, 5:36 pm

Well, we know you do, personally, but does *everyone*? I dunno.


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iamnotaparakeet
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07 Apr 2008, 5:43 pm

fabshelly wrote:
Well, we know you do, personally, but does *everyone*? I dunno.


What do I do personally?



Kilroy
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07 Apr 2008, 9:32 pm

to me Religion is something that stops the mind from thinking
Spirituality is the only way to a God/Goddess if there is one in my eyes

a book won't make me a better person
that's for me to learn, not to be forced



rmctagg09
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07 Apr 2008, 9:39 pm

Kilroy wrote:
to me Religion is something that stops the mind from thinking
Spirituality is the only way to a God/Goddess if there is one in my eyes

a book won't make me a better person
that's for me to learn, not to be forced



Not really in my case because I'm not some fanatic like some other Christians.



Kilroy
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07 Apr 2008, 9:44 pm

Well I am just harsh towards religion, though I don't look down on someone for believing, I ask why they believe, and such but unless they force it on me or call me things I won't utter passages from my little book :lol:



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08 Apr 2008, 5:45 pm

I am a Christian and an Aspie. I make no effort to appear righteous. I do not believe everyone should be a Christian. There are parts of the Bible I do not agree with. Jesus gave a message that was so simple, you'd be hard-pressed to find fault with it.

About my faith I am neither bombastic nor ashamed. People one this board will try to shame you for being Christian. Haters and hatees abound. :roll:



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08 Apr 2008, 5:47 pm

Kilroy wrote:
Well I am just harsh towards religion, though I don't look down on someone for believing, I ask why they believe, and such but unless they force it on me or call me things I won't utter passages from my little book :lol:


You've got me curious. What is your little book? Don't be harsh, man. It encourages people to be harsh on you.



graemephillips
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09 Apr 2008, 2:48 am

Kilroy wrote:
We are the Borg
You will be assimilated
We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own
Your culture will adapt to service ours
Resistance is Futile


I like this part. To me, it seems to be something to do with immigration. Immigrants come into the UK and expect us to destroy our culture and adopt theirs and then moan that we are being racist when we refuse. Resistance often appears futile because of the large number of politically correct people saying, "uhhhhhhhhh, you've got to be more tolerant, open-minded, multicultural and diverse".