An all-out assualt on far-right Christian fundamentalism!! !

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Nah Liger, we're not trying to convert em to Christianity with guns, we're just raping em for oil

I don't think he was suggesting that Ed. I think he was suggesting that having a Christian theocracy is the only way to subjugate people to it who don't want it. We aren't living in the middle ages, no grand inquisition, nothing. Since there's no government strong-arm enforcing christianity then no one's being forced.

I know you haven't said this yet, I'm just adding this on for anyone else reasing it, but I'm sure someone's gonna be ignorant enough to try and I'll tack this on just to spell it out ahead of time: Bush is not steering Iraq or Afghanistan to Christianity at all (at most he's pushing for a democracy and this may take them secularizing their version of Islam almost to where Turkey has it). I know that would take a lot of ignorance but I've seen where those old "Oh yeah? well guess what? Your mom!" type responses have been replaced with "Oh yeah?Well guess what! Bush!". Quite often it won't make sense, often times it won't have anything to do with reality, but then again I've seen that by a lot of people's standards it doesn't really have to.

You're the first person i have ever seen mention that Bush is possibly is trying to steer Iraq or Afghanistan towards christianity. That is a nonsense and an impossibility. You're the first person to bring Bush into the discussion with sean. You launch in with an offensive, claiming it's defensive from you're percieved knowledge to what those on the left of you would say and call them ignorant once again. This is what ignorant people do. Decent people stick to the points without insulting fellow debaters.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the US policies in the middle east are pushing that region towards more radical strains of Islam. I think we should let sean answer what he meant by building the laws round christianity but from his track record my guess is that ed and blackliger have got the right end of the stick as to what he meant.

Nonsense? Impossibility? That hasn't stopped many people with a lot of things so far - maybe not this in particular but equally as far out.



I used to do that but I was starting to feel like I was the only one carrying that burdon. As for far right though, I'm trying to figure out just who the heck could be drawn up as the equivocal of trying to evangelise people with guns - being that it isn't happening in the states, I got to thinking that our military was about the only thing that Black Liger could have meant when he was talking about people in our country pointing guns at nonchristians and loosely implying via Sean's post that it was an attempt to convert people to Christianity. I can't help but think that while yeah, it is an assumption, its about the most likely route he could be taking with that.



Some, others are becomming more convinced that were legit about helping em and are really starting to turn the evil looks at the insurgants. Like in Iraq right now there's more people joining the police than ever and they've been doing a lot more on their own in terms of fighting for peace in their own country. Seems like the media covering the stories in those countries seem to be showing a lot more hate toward Bush and the U.S. than the collective peoples of those countries. As for the people who are blowing themselves up, the majority of them aren't from those countries or are elements of the ruling party that got overthrown and want to brign everyone else down with em or if they're that hopeful want to restore the original ruling party.

Actually, I meant the civilian nutjobs with their own forts and armouries.

That happens in my country?

Why is it that Christian Fundamentalism is now synonymous with being rich?
It shouldn't!
There are many cases where being rich is a sign of evil.
"A rich person can go to heaven as easily as a camel can fit through the eye of a needle"

Lets not focus on the differences of culture or ethnicity.
Lets not focus on the differences in religion or beliefs.
Lets not focus on the differences in linguistics.
Lets focus on class values and determine, why is it that some people are starving while others are living in luxery?
Religion doesn't have to be the opiate of the people.
Lets all rise up against the true dangers of our times!

Unfortunately a lot of the true dangers in the in the world happen to be religious fundamentalists as well as rich in the form of Christian fundamentalists in the US and elsewhere and also Islamic fundamentalists in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. Religion brings with it a lot of problems as well as im sure ofr some people solutions.

There is no Fundamentalists any where They are just Crazy that All.

You can see the results of a legal system which isn't dissimilar from the one proposed by Judaism and Christianity by visiting Saudi Arabia

Hell for that matter you can see it in The Sudan, and you could have seen the most impressive example of it if you had visited Afghanistan between 1997-2001.

*Thinks of Arab Christians killing African Christians and shudders*

Well, I pretty much agree, and in my opinion the worst aspect of fundamentalism is the proselytizing and total lack of tolerance for other viewpoints.

And saying that "God said (variable)" or, "The bible says (variable)",as a defense for said attitudes and behavior, irritates me. Ultimately, we believe in and espouse the value systems that we want to, and then find a reason to do so, and most people will defend and rationalize those values however they can.

Putting the blame on "god" for said values and abuse of other people and their rights is simply shiftign the blame to a place that is very hard to argue with, because even if the god does exist, he is proven to be irratiional, disposed towards favoritism, and not at all fair. It's just about impossible to flat out prove that he doesn't exist, becuase he can't be seen, heard, felt, etc etc....

And any attempt at a rational debate culminates in "Because God said so!".