God is Santa for adults

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Yeah. The guilt-thing, and the concept of "Sin" is what really hits a proverbial nerve with me.
My concern over people just wanting to live their lives without thinking to much about stuff is very limited.

There is a why, there are motives. Existence just is. Why depersonalize it?

Guilt is a natural response to having done something wrong. Do atheists feel no guilt?

Atheists are individuals. Who can say how each individual might feel about what he or she might have done? But someone free of religious doctrine is certainly free of feeling guilty for being born, a foundation of Christian belief for what it terms the sin of Adam for "eating of the tree of knowledge" which at one swoop seems to condemn not only the sexual act which is the basis for the bulk of all life but knowledge itself which has raised humankind from the perpetual fright of starvation and many of the natural phenomena that threatens life. An atheist is free of the thought of defying God since there is no God to defy and therefore all knowledge is open to pursuit.

I know a lot of believers will be offended by this, but after watching them and how they talk about God, yes, I do believe in many but not all cases, God is like a super-Santa Claus for them. Look at all the glowing testimonies about answered prayers, miracles, etc., sounds like a kid bragging about what he or she got for Christmas. And, just like at Christmas, Santa/God is more generous in some households than he is in others. But let's not talk about the households in which he is not generous, just like let's not talk about the people whose prayers are not answered.

This afternoon one of the church ladies stopped by my house to drop off a CD about Catholics returning to the Faith. It bothers her that I, who used to sing in the choir, am now one of the fallen-away. But has she ever asked Why or What led me to turn away? No. When I asked her some very pointed questions, she became very uncomfortable and started muttering about God's will or in God's due time. No curiosity at all about my life, how I feel about how it has turned out--50 and never married, never a serious relationship. No, I should be patient and wait. Well, I am tired of being a surrogate virgin pet for a bunch of elderly church ladies who live in a nicey nicey world. I would like to live in that nicey nicey world too, but God had other plans I guess. I became acquainted with the ugly brutal facts of life early (and I am not just talking about sex). I don't live in that never-never land and never will. So she went off, promising to pray for me, and I am sure she will. But until she (and anyone else who wants me to return to the church) sits down and honestly listens to what I have to say, without being shocked or trying to pass it off, then no, we aren't going to get anywhere. Because I can tell when people truly care about me, and when they are trying to get something from me to satisfy their needs.

And that is part of the problem when believers whose Santa/God is very generous to them try to reach out to those of us whose Santa/God hasn't been so generous. We don't inhabit the same worlds. We don't have the same experiences, and we don't speak the same language. Your Santa/God may be very very generous to you, and that is good, I am happy for you. But he hasn't necessarily been the same to me. Which leads me to the conclusion, either he is inconsistent and plays favorites (and that should be acknowledged by his favorites) or he doesn't exist. I prefer a God who doesn't exist to one who plays favorites and then says Love Me.

Fair enough. I actually admire and try to adopt the atheist mindset of enjoying the here and now, instead of worrying about offending some big guy in the sky. I do think the evidence points to no god. I just believe for some reason, I'm not entirely sure why. But my truth may not be yours, or even true at all.

pray in one hand and defecate in the other and see which one gets filled first.

Santa was based on a real person

hmmm, bringing up the dead.

Anyway, I thought Santa was Santa and God was God.

He sure was! Saint Nicholas or Sinter Klaas (Santa Claus) was the bisshop of Myra and a protector of children. He died at december 5th and that is when us Dutch people give our children presents, not at christmas (though lots of people give presents at x-mas too) he is portrayed as a tall thin man with long white hair and beard in bisshop clothes on a white horse which has ceveral assistants who are black, they are called Zwarte Pieten (Black Petes). In summer he is said to live in Spain. The 'arrival from spain' is a big celebration here accompanied by a TV show but also celebrated in pretty much every city and village here. Families all come together to see Sinterklaas and his Zarte Pieten arrive. After that children can put their shoe in front of the chimney and find toys and candy in them untill december 5th at 'Pakjesavond' (gift night).

I heard Coca Cola is the company who introduced their own version of Santa Claus to America to bring joy and presents to american children (and money to the stores I guess). Santa Claus was adapted to fit american standards. He got himselfe some elves as helpers in stead of his former black 'slaves'. he also 'moved' from Spain to the north pole and traded his horse for flying raindeer. The shoes at the fire place are replaced by socks.

Other posters have addressed the way organized religion often seems designed to make people feel bad about themselves, so I'll skip that part of the discussion.

I also used to think "Where's the harm?" But I've become convinced that telling people they can believe whatever they want without evidence or logic is a bad idea. Yes, no doubt religion/faith can be comforting, and for a lot of people I'm sure it's mostly harmless.

However, if we say that people are allowed to believe whatever they want, how do we distinguish the "good" religion from the bad? To give just one example: what about a person who refuses to allow their child to receive medical treatment because their faith tells them it's wrong? If they weren't doing it for religious reasons, wouldn't we say that's abuse, or at best neglect?

I think if people are allowed to believe whatever they want, unchallenged, then we have a climate where harmful beliefs and practices can flourish because there is nothing to stop them.

You just called everyone who follows a religion ignorant. That is inappriate. You are expressing a feeling, your belief, but you do NOT know that there is nothing behind what others feel or believe.

One simple change will make your statement a whole lot less offensive:

"Anyone else hate religion and feel concern that it stands for ignorance?"

At least now you've made it less absolute.

This is the main issue I have with aetheists. You show no respect for the intelligence or experience of those who disagree with you, and the words show it. It would help quite a bit if you could learn to change those words. The actual respect ... well, maybe that will follow

You just called everyone who follows a religion ignorant. That is inappriate. You are expressing a feeling, your belief, but you do NOT know that there is nothing behind what others feel or believe.

One simple change will make your statement a whole lot less offensive:

"Anyone else hate religion and feel concern that it stands for ignorance?"

At least now you've made it less absolute.

This is the main issue I have with aetheists. You show no respect for the intelligence or experience of those who disagree with you, and the words show it. It would help quite a bit if you could learn to change those words. The actual respect ... well, maybe that will follow

Not everything comes from God. I don't believe in a God who micro-manages.

But if He did - in theory, different people grow from different experiences. For some, the greatest challenge is success. Can they stay true to their values? Will they share? Or will they pat themselves on the back, assume all is good, but actually be the rich man for whom it will be harder to enter heaven than a camel to pass through the eye of a needle?

I have no answers for you, but I am saddened that this woman had no time to hear your story. Isn't that the first thing anyone should learn, to listen?