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Orwell
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20 Aug 2008, 11:46 am

ToadOfSteel wrote:

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Religion is not based on reason, therefore its rank-and-file is among the most unreasonable of peoples ever brought together under one idea - the belief in the supernatural.

Yes, I've obviously been very unreasonable by going on a point-by-point rebuttal without blabbering on like some lunatic...

Faith is no so much irrational as it is a-rational. That is, it can fall outside the bounds of reason and thus such rules can neither support nor condemn it. Now, one could claim to have an epistemology based solely on reason, but I would argue that people who do so are either lying or deluding themselves because none of us, not even Aspies, are robots or Vulcans.

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Awesomelyglorious
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20 Aug 2008, 11:47 am

ToadOfSteel wrote:

(if you're interested, look up some of the religious views of Sir Isaac Newton... you might be surprised).

Oh, yes, quite interesting. He tended towards Arianistic ideas of the trinity, but I believe he was influenced by the Socinianism of the day. He also looked for special signs in the texts too, right?

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Basically, God created the universe and, with it, the Laws of Physics which govern it, which then took over. Yes, it leans in the direction of Deism, but it differs from Deism in that God is still with humanity. The Laws of physics were implemented to give humanity some sense of order amidst the chaos, which would allow humans (and indeed, all life) to function reliably.

I wasn't aware that Newton really thought so Deistically, didn't he think that God had to keep the planets up, otherwise gravity would pull them towards us.

Quote:

I'd go further into detail but that would mean getting into Predestination, which is a very touchy subject (probably even more touchy among theologians than homosexuality and abortion combined), so i'll cut it short here...

Ah, but it is so fun!! !

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20 Aug 2008, 11:54 am

A thread about predestination would be interesting.

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Awesomelyglorious
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20 Aug 2008, 12:10 pm

greenblue wrote:

A thread about predestination would be interesting.

Hey, I've made a thread or so about free will. That has some overlap.

greenblue
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20 Aug 2008, 12:17 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

greenblue wrote:

A thread about predestination would be interesting.

Hey, I've made a thread or so about free will. That has some overlap.

Yes, practically it would be kinda the same, I wonder if it's just some overlap or does it take away the idea of free will, completely?

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Awesomelyglorious
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20 Aug 2008, 12:19 pm

greenblue wrote:

Yes, practically it would be kinda the same, I wonder if it's just some overlap or does it take away the idea of free will, completely?

I've argued that free will is incompatible with predestination, and I think in those threads at times.

ToadOfSteel
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20 Aug 2008, 1:52 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

toadofsteel wrote:

I wasn't aware that Newton really thought so Deistically, didn't he think that God had to keep the planets up, otherwise gravity would pull them towards us.

Newton had some Deistic beliefs, especially concerning things that can be explained by physics, but concerning spirituality was more mainline theistic...

Sir Issac Newton wrote:

Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done.

This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent Being. … This Being governs all things, not as the soul of the world, but as Lord over all; and on account of his dominion he is wont to be called “Lord God” παντοκρατωρ [pantokratōr], or “Universal Ruler”. … The Supreme God is a Being eternal, infinite, absolutely perfect.

Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors.

I also love how he predicted the end time to happen no earlier than 2060 basically as a way to tell other people making such predictions in his time to shut up...

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20 Aug 2008, 2:19 pm

greenblue wrote:

A thread about predestination would be interesting.

I would freely choose to not participate.

iamnotaparakeet
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20 Aug 2008, 2:22 pm

Fnord wrote:

greenblue wrote:

A thread about predestination would be interesting.

I would freely choose to not participate.

DentArthurDent
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20 Aug 2008, 7:45 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:

.

Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors.

Good to see he was not always correct

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Barracuda
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20 Aug 2008, 8:11 pm

Fnord wrote:

greenblue wrote:

A thread about predestination would be interesting.

I would freely choose to not participate.

I don't want to, but I probably will at some point...

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greenblue
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20 Aug 2008, 8:15 pm

Fnord wrote:

greenblue wrote:

A thread about predestination would be interesting.

I would freely choose to not participate.

Why not?

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ToadOfSteel
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21 Aug 2008, 12:20 am

DentArthurDent wrote:

ToadOfSteel wrote:

.

Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors.

Good to see he was not always correct

Are you referring to the perehelion precession of Mercury?

DentArthurDent
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21 Aug 2008, 4:44 am

ToadOfSteel wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

ToadOfSteel wrote:

.

Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors.

Good to see he was not always correct

Are you referring to the perehelion precession of Mercury?

Where did you pull that one from :scratch:

far far too much general knowledge for someone your age. Behave :wink:

ToadOfSteel
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21 Aug 2008, 1:48 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

ToadOfSteel wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

ToadOfSteel wrote:

.

Opposition to godliness is atheism in profession and idolatry in practice. Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors.

Good to see he was not always correct

Are you referring to the perehelion precession of Mercury?

Where did you pull that one from :scratch:

far far too much general knowledge for someone your age. Behave :wink:

1) Or for my religion...

2) I pulled it from the Star Trek TNG episode "Descent" where Data is playing poker with holographic representations of Newton, Einstein, and Hawking. The latter two crack a joke using the perehelion precession of mercury at Newton's expense

3) The perehelion precession of mercury is general knowledge? Most non-scientific people believe that planetary orbits are perfect circles...

4) The only thing I'm intolerant of is ageism, you old fart

DentArthurDent
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22 Aug 2008, 1:53 am

ToadOfSteel wrote:

4) The only thing I'm intolerant of is ageism, you old fart

Hey I'd love to be your age again (as long as I can keep my newly found DX, love my DX, not much fun being AS when in dx terms it practically didnt exist)
Just think to be 20 and know all there is to know about everything again

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