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Pro-lifers, please stop doing that (scary pictures!)

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greenblue
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16 Sep 2008, 4:32 pm

BokeKaeru wrote:
Who said AD was talking about the trauma for the mother? What about to the kid? It's necessarily assumed that such a child is guaranteed adoption by a loving family, when quite often this isn't the case - especially when said child is not from what many consider to be a desirable ethnic group, not photogenic or otherwise not a "perfect child." Between non-existence with no capacity for thought or emotion by which to perceive such a lack of being and quite possible trauma, which is really the better option?

Yes yes, and that is the thing that I wonder about actually, how much the adoption process and foster care do for the mental and emotional health of any of the children, honestly I don't think that much compared to kids who live with their own families since birth.


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16 Sep 2008, 4:39 pm

Haliphron wrote:
What about human meat folks? Whats wrong with eating human flesh AS LONG AS the person you're munching on wasnt intentionally murdered......:?


Not much other than the fact that it is HUMAN FLESH. 8O



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16 Sep 2008, 4:41 pm

shawnwilliam you really need to get out and see a bit more of the world. You make it all sound so simple when the decision to abort is generally a heart wrenching one. Please do not link abortion to murder because it clearly is not on so many levels. The OP posted a very sensible post to try and make sense of some of the arguments put by extreme pro-lifers and the idea was that this should not turn into another vitriol laced thread.


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16 Sep 2008, 4:44 pm

@ slowmutant of course 'kitties' are for eating where the heck did you get the idea they were for loving - that should be illegal


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16 Sep 2008, 4:45 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
shawnwilliam you really need to get out and see a bit more of the world. You make it all sound so simple when the decision to abort is generally a heart wrenching one. Please do not link abortion to murder because it clearly is not on so many levels. The OP posted a very sensible post to try and make sense of some of the arguments put by extreme pro-lifers and the idea was that this should not turn into another vitriol laced thread.


Im entitled to my opinion so back off! :x im not in a good mood. dont tell me what to do.



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16 Sep 2008, 4:46 pm

slowmutant wrote:
No, kitties are for loving! They are not for eating!

How about babies?


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16 Sep 2008, 5:40 pm

greenblue wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
No, kitties are for loving! They are not for eating!

How about babies?


Babies are for eating if it was an unwanted pregnancy. :P



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16 Sep 2008, 6:35 pm

ShawnWilliam wrote:
greenblue wrote:
ShawnWilliam wrote:
terminating a fetus because of a serious defect is not the same as terminating a fetus because the mother changes her mind.. one of these things is necessary and the other is wrong..

Both are absolutely necessary.


uhh, no.. it's called adoption.


No offense, but you try being pregnant and carrying something inside you for nine months then giving it away!!

Sorry, I just get really upset when people make things sound so simple. They aren't; I've said this time and again - abortion breaks your heart. Finding out you're pregnant but can't feasibly have the child... it's hell. You suffer, you grieve, you're thrown headfirst into a place so dark and nightmarish you never though it was possible. It's the worst feeling in the world, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. And the decision is just... >sigh<. I can't even begin to describe how much of an impossible, horrific situation it is. Nobody wants an abortion. Nobody.

Thank you MissPickwickian for this post!

Also, people need to bear in mind the very vast majority of abortions happen in the first trimester, usually before the fetus even has a brain.


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16 Sep 2008, 6:43 pm

I feel better about abortion if I know the doomed fetus has no brain and thus cannot suffer.

On sentience vs. non-sentience

I'd feel better about killing a plant or a mold colony than I would about killing something aware of its own existence. It's a really personal and philosophical thing. With sentience or at least awareness comes the possibility of suffering.



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16 Sep 2008, 7:01 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
@ slowmutant of course 'kitties' are for eating where the heck did you get the idea they were for loving - that should be illegal


I hope you realize that doing the former is considered cruelty to animals which is a Felony in most cities and states. So if you actually do it you'll end up getting in touch with your feminine side in the slammer. :D



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16 Sep 2008, 7:02 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
ShawnWilliam wrote:
greenblue wrote:
ShawnWilliam wrote:
terminating a fetus because of a serious defect is not the same as terminating a fetus because the mother changes her mind.. one of these things is necessary and the other is wrong..

Both are absolutely necessary.


uhh, no.. it's called adoption.


No offense, but you try being pregnant and carrying something inside you for nine months then giving it away!!

Sorry, I just get really upset when people make things sound so simple. They aren't; I've said this time and again - abortion breaks your heart. Finding out you're pregnant but can't feasibly have the child... it's hell. You suffer, you grieve, you're thrown headfirst into a place so dark and nightmarish you never though it was possible. It's the worst feeling in the world, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. And the decision is just... >sigh<. I can't even begin to describe how much of an impossible, horrific situation it is. Nobody wants an abortion. Nobody.

Thank you MissPickwickian for this post!

Also, people need to bear in mind the very vast majority of abortions happen in the first trimester, usually before the fetus even has a brain.


well, i respect your opinion.. and my opinion on this matter has gradually shifted from one spot to the other over time.. maybe early abortions are okay.. but i just dont know. So I gess I'll be neutral on the subject.



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16 Sep 2008, 7:14 pm

To clarify, I certainly don't advocate abortions after perhaps 14-16 weeks unless they're for one of the conditions mentioned in the original post (or other similar ones), or the mother's going to die. That should be plenty of time to make up your mind and get the procedure done. The longer it takes the more traumatic it is anyway.


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slowmutant
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16 Sep 2008, 7:35 pm

Quote:
No offense, but you try being pregnant and carrying something inside you for nine months then giving it away!!


Funny you should say that. One time I was host to one of those H.R. Geiger Alien things.



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16 Sep 2008, 7:36 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Quote:
No offense, but you try being pregnant and carrying something inside you for nine months then giving it away!!


Funny you should say that. One time I was host to one of those H.R. Geiger Alien things.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Slowmutant FTW.

(Sorry, I love Aliens)


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17 Sep 2008, 4:21 am

ShawnWilliam wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
shawnwilliam you really need to get out and see a bit more of the world. You make it all sound so simple when the decision to abort is generally a heart wrenching one. Please do not link abortion to murder because it clearly is not on so many levels. The OP posted a very sensible post to try and make sense of some of the arguments put by extreme pro-lifers and the idea was that this should not turn into another vitriol laced thread.


Im entitled to my opinion so back off! :x im not in a good mood. dont tell me what to do.



well please dont write such uninformed clap trap. MissP has posted a well thought out response to the spin of pro lifers, I suggest that you read it and learn something.


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17 Sep 2008, 5:31 am

LeKiwi wrote:
To clarify, I certainly don't advocate abortions after perhaps 14-16 weeks unless they're for one of the conditions mentioned in the original post (or other similar ones), or the mother's going to die. That should be plenty of time to make up your mind and get the procedure done. The longer it takes the more traumatic it is anyway.


See, THIS is a moderately pro-life statement that MAKES SENSE. :)

As for whether or not this post was pro-choice, I really was, as some people pointed out, just trying to cut through the enormous amounts of spin generated by the pro-life movement. There is pro-choice spin, too*, but it annoys me less because no one compares anything to a death camp (that is really one of my pet peeves, 'kay).

* ex: "all pro-lifers are religious nuts" (I know a strongly pro-life, but otherwise liberal, girl who identifies as a Deist. She believes that science shows that life begins at conception); "all pro-lifers are anti-feminist" (many are, but some considered the interests of both women and fetuses before deciding that avoiding the act of murder is more important than the welfare of young mothers).


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