The abortion debate

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14 Mar 2009, 2:30 pm

Abortion is legal and has been since January of 1973.

The fetus is in the woman's body,
therfore it is up to the woman to decide.

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21 Mar 2009, 4:17 am

Do the "pro-lifers" have any arument barring "sanctity" and the bestowal of "souls"?
Physically, a zygote is no more alive or human than any other human cell.
It can develop into an individual human, but so can the gametes involved in intercourse between the fertile - barring the intervention of preventatives. Early abortion has virtually the same result as a condom.

Late abortion is another matter.

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21 Mar 2009, 6:42 am

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:

The fetus is in the woman's body,
therfore it is up to the woman to decide.

Which also means that the woman has full responsibility of the child? That the father can just walk away? I think it's more complicated than that.

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22 Mar 2009, 8:33 am

PLA wrote:

Depends on the pro-lifer. The ones that oppose the "morning after pill" almost certainly hold that view. Certainly not all do.

Quote:

Late abortion is another matter.

It isn't treated any different here in the US, unfortunately.

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22 Mar 2009, 11:08 am

PLA wrote:

Late abortion is another matter.

Why? Whatever is in a woman's body is her to dispose of.

ruveyn

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22 Mar 2009, 1:22 pm

ruveyn wrote:

PLA wrote:

Late abortion is another matter.

Why? Whatever is in a woman's body is her to dispose of.

ruveyn

So if a woman (but not a man) were to rob a jewelry store and swallow a diamond ring, then she becomes the owner?

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22 Mar 2009, 7:00 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

PLA wrote:

Late abortion is another matter.

Why? Whatever is in a woman's body is her to dispose of.

ruveyn

So if a woman (but not a man) were to rob a jewelry store and swallow a diamond ring, then she becomes the owner?

Well, no. But I think there might be some kerfuffle if anyone told her she had to have it lodged in her digestive tract for so long because it would make the ring shinier.

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22 Mar 2009, 7:36 pm

twoshots wrote:

Ancalagon wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

PLA wrote:

Late abortion is another matter.

Why? Whatever is in a woman's body is her to dispose of.

ruveyn

So if a woman (but not a man) were to rob a jewelry store and swallow a diamond ring, then she becomes the owner?

Well, no. But I think there might be some kerfuffle if anyone told her she had to have it lodged in her digestive tract for so long because it would make the ring shinier.

A woman made the fetus through the natural processes of her body. What she made is hers. The fetus is her property from the beginning. Unlike the ring that first belong to someone else. A woman own her sh*t and she owns any fetuses that grow in her body. Therefore she has the right of disposal.

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22 Mar 2009, 7:54 pm

twoshots wrote:

Ancalagon wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Why? Whatever is in a woman's body is her to dispose of.

ruveyn

So if a woman (but not a man) were to rob a jewelry store and swallow a diamond ring, then she becomes the owner?

Well, no. But I think there might be some kerfuffle if anyone told her she had to have it lodged in her digestive tract for so long because it would make the ring shinier.

The ring won't die if it's taken out either.

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22 Mar 2009, 7:58 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

twoshots wrote:

Ancalagon wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Why? Whatever is in a woman's body is her to dispose of.

ruveyn

So if a woman (but not a man) were to rob a jewelry store and swallow a diamond ring, then she becomes the owner?

Well, no. But I think there might be some kerfuffle if anyone told her she had to have it lodged in her digestive tract for so long because it would make the ring shinier.

The ring won't die if it's taken out either.

Not really the point. The point is who has the right to make the decisions about how to use the body.

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22 Mar 2009, 7:59 pm

ruveyn wrote:

A woman own her sh*t and she owns any fetuses that grow in her body.

You can't own other people.

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22 Mar 2009, 8:25 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

A woman own her sh*t and she owns any fetuses that grow in her body.

You can't own other people.

A fetus is not a person. In fact a new born human infant is not a person, because it does not have sufficient brain mass and neural interconnects to be a person.

So a woman can and does own the fetus within and anything else there that grows naturally within.

Let me make a guess. Do you believe in souls?

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22 Mar 2009, 8:25 pm

twoshots wrote:

Ancalagon wrote:

The ring won't die if it's taken out either.

Not really the point. The point is who has the right to make the decisions about how to use the body.

Whose body, though? You're probably referring to the mother's of course, but there is another person involved.

Rights do have limits. Especially when they run up against someone else's rights.

The right to modify your body how you like doesn't give you the right to kill anyone who's inconviniently in your way.

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22 Mar 2009, 8:31 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

Rights do have limits. Especially when they run up against someone else's rights.

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22 Mar 2009, 8:34 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

Rights do have limits. Especially when they run up against someone else's rights.

A fetus is not a "someone else". A fetus is not a person. To be a person, a live human must have sufficient brain mass and neural interconnections to be self-aware and capable of having intentions. Human infants do not have enough of these things to be persons, so how can a fetus be a person?

I can anticipate your next question. Well, you might ask, if a new born is not a person, then it is alright to kill it. No it is not alright. First of all killing born infants is a felony legally. Second, a born infant can be taken care of by someone other than the mother. Once born an infant is no longer a danger or a burden to its mother insofar as another person can care and raise it. The law insists that a born infant be given the chance to develop into a person. This was not always so. In ancient societies unwanted or defective infants were routinely killed by exposure.

ruveyn

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23 Mar 2009, 12:07 am

ruveyn wrote:

Ancalagon wrote:

Rights do have limits. Especially when they run up against someone else's rights.

A person is any living creature that is of the human species.

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