What do you think of objectivism?

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08 Apr 2009, 5:34 pm

Ayn Rand was basically a female version of Ebenezer Scrooge and the entire philosophy is her butthurt over her childhood in Russia.

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Delirium
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08 Apr 2009, 5:41 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke

Altruism is one of the prime evils of the human race. I oppose it. I believe in enlightened selfishness. There is only one thing worse than sacrificing one's self and that is sacrificing another.

ruveyn

Andrew Ryan? Is that you?

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08 Apr 2009, 5:50 pm

Delirium wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke

Andrew Ryan? Is that you?

Who is Andrew Ryan?

ruveyn

Delirium
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08 Apr 2009, 5:54 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Delirium wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke

Andrew Ryan? Is that you?

Who is Andrew Ryan?

ruveyn

The main character in BioShock. He's based off of Ayn Rand and also believes that altruism is the root of all evil.

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phil777
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08 Apr 2009, 6:04 pm

Hmm yeah, he seems like any self important capitalist. Still unsure if that fits Ruveyn perfectly though. <.<

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08 Apr 2009, 6:44 pm

Delirium wrote:

Ayn Rand was basically a female version of Ebenezer Scrooge and the entire philosophy is her butthurt over her childhood in Russia.

What I found on her philosophy always very funny was her criticism of Immanuel Kant. She blamed him for almost very kind of evil ever since. Unfortunately she also has only a minor understanding of philosophy on her own, especially when she starts to criticise Kant's moral philosophy. The issues she criticises are not original Kant's ideas, but his adoption of ideas of the Stoics.

There is a lot to criticize with Kant's idea of moral as a inner duty, but when she would had here a better understanding of the history of philosophy, she would not blame Kant for promoting the idea that doing something for your own benefit and the success of an action does count for the moral stand of the action. This idea Kant has adopted from the Stoics.

Kant was also hardly the most influential person how promoted such ideas: Marcus Aurelius was here much more successful.

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13 Apr 2009, 6:19 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke

Altruism is one of the prime evils of the human race. I oppose it. I believe in enlightened selfishness.

An analysis of altruism should really make distinctions based on whom the altruism is directed towards.

As the Selfish Gene (among others) explains, kin altruism is an evolved human characteristic, because it is biologically adaptive to behave altruistically towards people you are genetically close to.
As JS Haldane joked, “I would give my life for two brothers or eight cousins”.

So extreme selfishness is biologically maladaptive, and - since humans are part of nature – often not condusive to personal happiness.

At least not for NT’s. Aspies in general might be a different kettle of fish.

At the other end of the spectrum you have maladaptive altruism … which is, let’s be honest, practiced almost exclusively by white people (adopting children of other races, opening their borders and calling it diversity, beating themselves up over their own ‘racism’ etc). It’s one of the most bizarre developments in human history. The self-serving propaganda of non-whites must surely play a part. As for the rest of it … who knows … some suggest that maladaptive altruism might be a form of status seeking.

So in response to objectivism, no, I don’t think every man is an end unto himself. And I’m not too keen on unrestrained capitalism either.

ruveyn
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13 Apr 2009, 6:31 pm

Dussel wrote:

Not really - As the French, German, Austrian and other laws stand, your obliged e.g. to help in the case of car accident or an other situation alike. Failing so is considered a crime by the law. The charge in France differs from a fine up to five years imprisonment; in Germany up to one year in prison.

Euro-Trash 101. No wonder the Europeans cannot cope by themselves. They have no concept of liberty. In the European view, society is number one, the individual a weak third.

ruveyn

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13 Apr 2009, 6:41 pm

codarac wrote:

So extreme selfishness is biologically maladaptive, and - since humans are part of nature – often not condusive to personal happiness.

It would have in a group of humans also an other consequence: You would loose the support of the group. The group would not leave a too selfish behaviour unpunished. So your chances of surviving would be lowered too on the long run.

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14 Apr 2009, 2:21 am

timeisdead wrote:

Quote:

1. Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.

hmm - potentially not

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc[/youtube]

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14 Apr 2009, 10:18 am

codarac wrote:

So in response to objectivism, no, I don’t think every man is an end unto himself. And I’m not too keen on unrestrained capitalism either.

Do you believe that, in essence, you are the means to the ends of others. If so what makes their end more important than you?

ruveyn

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14 Apr 2009, 3:14 pm

timeisdead wrote:

Truth does not depend on whether or not there is an observer.

timeisdead wrote:

The truth may sometimes differ from our common perceptions.

no and yes.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbKw0_v2clo[/youtube]

greenblue
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14 Apr 2009, 11:35 pm

^ You mean, something like this?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw9fbzeMMNc[/youtube]

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14 Apr 2009, 11:47 pm

argh the dragon doth watcheth! cool video.

Sand
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15 Apr 2009, 1:49 am

ruveyn wrote:

codarac wrote:

So in response to objectivism, no, I don’t think every man is an end unto himself. And I’m not too keen on unrestrained capitalism either.

Do you believe that, in essence, you are the means to the ends of others. If so what makes their end more important than you?

ruveyn

You are obviously addicted to an extremely narrow viewpoint as to what consists of yourself. It is a matter of being flexible enough to include more than your immediate possessions or family as "yourself". I get immense personal pleasure in being able to help other creatures including humans to make their way through life. You an describe that as a form of selfishness and I can accept that.

Sand
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15 Apr 2009, 1:53 am

Concenik wrote:

timeisdead wrote:

Truth does not depend on whether or not there is an observer.

timeisdead wrote:

The truth may sometimes differ from our common perceptions.

no and yes.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbKw0_v2clo[/youtube]

I have no idea what the conceptual problems of others might be but I have no difficulty at all in seeing the concave view of the mask as concave.

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