Why isn't "Islam Day" September 11th?

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Henriksson
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28 May 2009, 2:48 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Henriksson wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Henriksson wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

SamAckary wrote:

Ragtime, I must disagree with your points slightly:
I realise that yes Islam is most likely the bloodiest of religions, but I would not exempt certain religions as 'peaceful' because it is not true, I mean you can't say that Christianity is the best for peace, I mean look at their record, not particularly blood-free, even though Jesus had great teachings and very wise and honourable worldviews.

A religion is defined by its teachings, which are its holy texts. (I had a nicely written-out reply, but I accidentally closed the window and lost it all.) To sum up what I wrote earlier that got erased, Christians fall short of emulating Christ more than Muslims fall short of emulating Mohamed because Christ is a higher standard, not because Christians are worse-behaved. It's easier to go kill some people that aren't like you, as the Qu'ran dictates, than to examine your own heart and constantly, wilfully struggle against your own bad impulses, as Christ taught His followers, knowing that you will never fully achieve that goal. The Jews also have an easier time upholding their religion than Christians do: if practicing Jews carry out the specific, purely physical acts that their particular rabbis tell them, meticulous though those acts can be, then they're in perfect standing religiously. But the standard Christ set was moral perfection -- a standard that cannot be reached by humans. So in Christianity, the standard is what followers must work toward, rather than something that can be fully achieved, such as the act of a Muslim killing an "infidel", or a practicing Jew keeping the Sabbath. Those two things are fairly easy to accomplish, compared with restlessly attempting to "clean house" within your own soul.

So the religion that has the most ridiculously impossible standards, has the greatest possibility of being true?

I didn't say that at all.

You hinted at it. Otherwise, how would your longwinded post make any sense at all?

My post wasn't even long, let alone long-winded.

And my post is perfectly clear. What about it do you not understand?

Why you bother to bring it up at all, or what you're trying to say with it.

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Ragtime
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28 May 2009, 2:51 pm

Obres wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Hawaii voted to create an "Islam Day" to celebrate the religion that killed nearly 3,000 people on 9/11.
But what's odd is that the day chosen is September 24th -- close enough to remind Americans of 9/11 when they read or hear "Isalm" and "September" together, as they will whenever they read or hear about this new holiday. So, if everyone's already going to think of 9/11 whenever they read or hear "Islam Day, September 24th", why not just move it to the day everyone's really thinking of?

To the "Religion of Peace!"

:roll:

I know we're not supposed to flame and all, and that this post will probably be deleted, and that I might be banned or at least lectured by the mods, but there's just no other response to this thread. You're a f***ing moron.

Why? September 11th is the day Americans most associate with Islam, and for good reason -- it's a very memorable day!
So, if America is going to make a holiday about Islam, it should be September 11th. That's the day Islam really hit us where we live.

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Ragtime
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28 May 2009, 2:55 pm

Orwell wrote:

MR_BOGAN wrote:

This is what happpens if you watch to much fox news. :wink:

You know, about a week ago I actually caught a couple minutes of Fox News, which came on after the weather. I've never really watched Fox News on TV before, and I must say, it was pretty f***ing hilarious. For a moment, I wasn't sure if they were even serious- I thought, this is so blatantly biased, the news report reads like an extremely partisan op-ed, this is so overblown that it's got to be a parody. But no, it actually was the news. And they call themselves "fair and balanced" :lol:

Well, if you've never heard a true news report before, it can be a shock.

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ruveyn
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28 May 2009, 2:58 pm

Ragtime wrote:

A religion is defined by its teachings, which are its holy texts. (I had a nicely written-out reply, but I accidentally closed the window and lost it all.)

Plus its oral traditions. The Hadith in Islam is not a part of the written Q'ran. It was compiled after the Prophet (pus and blisters upon him) died.

ruveyn

Ragtime
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28 May 2009, 3:05 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

I'm actually for secular only public holidays, but this thread is an all time low for Ragtime. Scraping the bottom of the barrel.

The premise of this thread makes perfect sense. If you don't think so, rebut it. (Unless you can't think of a way to do that.)

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Last edited by Ragtime on 28 May 2009, 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ragtime
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28 May 2009, 3:07 pm

Henriksson wrote:

There is quite a similarity between Islam and Christianity...

Well, that's a rather lazy reply. At least drop in a random link or something.

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Ragtime
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28 May 2009, 3:09 pm

JohnnyCarcinogen wrote:

Islam already has religious holidays. You'd know this if you actually did research on the actual religion instead of copping out and getting your information from biased sources.

Pick up an Encyclopedia or other reference book rather than counting on the internet or the TV to provide you with accurate information.

Hey Johnny, learn to READ. "Islam Day" is an AMERICAN holiday, not a Muslim one. Therefore, the date picked should be a uniquely American one. Sept 11th springs to your mind first when you think of Islam's relationship to America, and you know it! You're just afraid to admit that because it's politically incorrect.

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Ragtime
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28 May 2009, 3:15 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

A religion is defined by its teachings, which are its holy texts. (I had a nicely written-out reply, but I accidentally closed the window and lost it all.)

Plus its oral traditions. The Hadith in Islam is not a part of the written Q'ran. It was compiled after the Prophet (pus and blisters upon him) died.

ruveyn

That's true. I was just differentiating between a religion's sacred teachings and the things followers may do on their own.

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MattShizzle
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28 May 2009, 3:20 pm

I have to remember the pus and blisters upon him. I don't see Christianity as much better than Islam. I did get death threats from Moslems online for some of the things I said.

ladyinred
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28 May 2009, 4:05 pm

Ragtime wrote:

ladyinred wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

ladyinred wrote:

:roll:

Wouldn't life just be a lot more simple without any religion.

Actually, I think humans are biologically programmed to pursue religion in some form. Not necessarily organized, official religions, but at the very least some kind of belief system with religious characteristics. If we humans don't believe in something greater than ourselves, we lose our sense of purpose, and of perspective, and that's vastly detrimental to anyone's life.

No. I think religion is what actually screws us up. Animals get on fine, just acting on instinct, its when we think too much that we f**k things up.

In what sense do animals get on fine just acting on instinct? Have you ever watched a nature show? It's all predator vs. prey in brutal, flesh-tearing carnage. And they never improve their circumstances as mankind has. And the reason for that is animals' lack of an intellect.

ladyinred wrote:

Considering its religion thats causing all the wars in the world, I think we could do just fine without it.

Except that it's not religion that causes all the wars, it's 1. religions that preach constant war and killing like Islam, and it's 2. mankind's natural lust for power. When power-mad dictators go crazy killing their own and/or other peoples, war is sometimes needed to defeat and remove them. It is a fact that Hitler was poised to take over the world, and would have done so, were he not powerfully militarily opposed. That said, religions that teach peace, like Christianity and Judaism, are our best antidote against unnecessary war.

ladyinred wrote:

People feel like there has to be something greater than ourselves, cause they have no self control.

No, it's because they know they're tiny, in comparison with the rest of the universe.
Knowing that there is something greater than yourself is being sane. Otherwise, you're just a solipcist with your head in the sand, content with staying ignorant of reality.

ladyinred wrote:

If you can be a decent and honest person in life, without being brainwashed by a book, you should feel proud.

Fine, but if I asked you to give me the exact definitions of the words "decent" and "honest", where would you go? To a book, a dictionary. So, common texts that we can all refer to are good things.

Well animals don't have a supermarket to go and buy the stuff already killed. Fox hunting is very brutal, as is a lot of stuff us humans do.
What caused 9/11? Religion. What causes all the trouble in the middle east? religion. What causes a lot of trouble in Ireland? religion. I'm not saying some religions don't have a good guidline to follow. If you have been bought up to follow it, or need to use it cause you have trouble setting boundaries for yourself, thats fine. But christianity is hardly peaceful in places like Texas where they kill people for being gay. And Bush saying god told him to go to war, if he did, God made a terrible and clearly wrong choice, or Bush is mentally unstable.
Just cause you believe in a greater being doesn't mean that people who don't, are insane. In reality, there is no god. And I think going by some of the things you've written on this thread, it may be you who has their head in the sand. And it could be you who is ignorant for not being open to the idea, that no-one really knows how the hell we got here. I believe there is other life out there, so if we do ever find them, it'll be interesting to see what they're take on it is, only if they have the exact same story, then we would know there is a god.
And no, i'd say someone who you can trust, and that will go out of their way just to help you, and not just because they think it'll help them get to heaven.

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28 May 2009, 6:17 pm

SamAckary wrote:

I realise that yes Islam is most likely the bloodiest of religions, but I would not exempt certain religions as 'peaceful' because it is not true, I mean you can't say that Christianity is the best for peace, I mean look at their record

While it's true that religion is a great excuse for a fun massacre in the park, I'm not sure that a religion-free society is necessarily, peaceful. Would a world of atheists be peaceful? I'm sure they'd find something to fight about.

Terminator 2: Judgement Day wrote:

John Connor: We're not gonna make it, are we? People, I mean.
The Terminator: It's in your nature to destroy yourselves.
John Connor: Yeah. Major drag, huh?

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0_equals_true
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28 May 2009, 6:18 pm

Ragtime wrote:

The premise of this thread makes perfect sense. If you don't think so, rebut it. (Unless you can't think of a way to do that.)

This thread makes as much sense as saying hicks should celebrate April 19 the day of the Oklahoma City bombing

Complete base level association.

MattShizzle
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28 May 2009, 6:20 pm

McVeigh was a Christian, too.

ladyinred
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28 May 2009, 6:40 pm

gbollard wrote:

SamAckary wrote:

Terminator 2: Judgement Day wrote:

John Connor: We're not gonna make it, are we? People, I mean.
The Terminator: It's in your nature to destroy yourselves.
John Connor: Yeah. Major drag, huh?

Yeah, you're probably right man, but still, at least they might be fighting over something that actually exists.

techstepgenr8tion
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28 May 2009, 8:07 pm

ladyinred wrote:

Yeah, you're probably right man, but still, at least they might be fighting over something that actually exists.

Wars really breakout over geopolitics, resource strains, and a lot of tensions that I think really were just iced over by religion or abolitionism at the times when they occured.

As for a future atheist society fighting over something - I'd think eugenics would be an inherent struggle; ie whether or not to sterilize the infirmed, deciding who's to say who is infirmed, what the boundaries are, etc. etc.. Then again it may be true that people would only find enough conviction to argue about it rather than taking it to their own life or death.

JohnnyCarcinogen
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28 May 2009, 10:22 pm

Ragtime wrote:

JohnnyCarcinogen wrote:

I read quite well, thanks. Try reading the Quran yourself to actually get a real idea:

"And do not let ill-will towards any folk incite you so that you swerve from dealing justly. Be just; that is nearest to heedfulness"
Quran 5:8

"Islam's relationship to America"?

That'd be the same as pronouncing Sept. 7th as "Jap Day" because, of course, we ALL know what - rather, who - first springs to our minds when we think of that day.

From what I've read of your posts, apparently you suffer from lack of religious diversity among your friends.

Besides, after all, isn't the MAJOR RELIGION among those Saudi Kings that Bush held hands with and pleaded with to lower oil prices ISLAM?
What about the leader of Afghanistan that we propped up?
You know, the guy who was a foreign ambassador for Halliburton before Bush gave him his own country?
And what was the chief religion of many of the countries our private military contractors sold weapons, helicopters, planes, etc.?

Oh yeah, Islam is SO destroying America - by buying foreign goods, trading oil, and some Muslims just trying to live in friggin' peace here in the states without some right-wing thug on a religious crusade trying to deport - or worse - kill them.

Stop inciting arguments over bloated, screeching FOX News reports. Jesus would be ashamed.

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