16 Sep 2021, 1:33 am
Pepe wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'll remind you Clinton won the popular vote. She lost only due to the archaic Electoral College.
Also poignant is that Trump lost to Obama's VP!
You mean the same system Hillary was counting on to save her bacon, until it didn't?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_(U.S._politics)
Quote:
Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.
URL link missed one character, it appears...Try:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_(U.S._politics)
Or, add a ) at the end of the address from the link you tried.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,547
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
16 Sep 2021, 1:55 am
16 Sep 2021, 1:59 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'll remind you Clinton won the popular vote. She lost only due to the archaic Electoral College.
Also poignant is that Trump lost to Obama's VP!
You mean the same system Hillary was counting on to save her bacon, until it didn't?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_(U.S._politics)
Yes, that system. All the more proof that the Electoral College is an archaic thing that was devised in a time when social elites (the founding fathers) feared democracy. Even Richard Nixon of all people voiced his concern that a Presidential candidate could lose the popular vote but carry the Electoral College - which a bloated orange conman with aspirations for becoming an autocratic strongman managed to do.
I have said it before.
10 million more people voted Democrat in the last erection election.
That is pretty decisive.
16 Sep 2021, 2:25 am
16 Sep 2021, 2:34 am
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, that system. All the more proof that the Electoral College is an archaic thing that was devised in a time when social elites (the founding fathers) feared democracy. Even Richard Nixon of all people voiced his concern that a Presidential candidate could lose the popular vote but carry the Electoral College - which a bloated orange conman with aspirations for becoming an autocratic strongman managed to do.
The Democratic party, including you, were perfectly happy with this "archaic" system when it benefited them, it was only when it delivered a result they didn't like that it became a problem, much like the filibuster.
I was under the impression the Electoral College system always favoured the Republicans.
I have learnt something new.
I'm getting smarter more knowledgeable every day.
16 Sep 2021, 2:54 am
Pepe wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, that system. All the more proof that the Electoral College is an archaic thing that was devised in a time when social elites (the founding fathers) feared democracy. Even Richard Nixon of all people voiced his concern that a Presidential candidate could lose the popular vote but carry the Electoral College - which a bloated orange conman with aspirations for becoming an autocratic strongman managed to do.
The Democratic party, including you, were perfectly happy with this "archaic" system when it benefited them, it was only when it delivered a result they didn't like that it became a problem, much like the filibuster.
I was under the impression the Electoral College system always favoured the Republicans.
I have learnt something new.
I'm getting smarter more knowledgeable every day.
It certainly has an interesting origin...
https://www.history.com/news/electoral-college-founding-fathers-constitutional-convention
One point that those who are complaining about having won the "popular" vote, but not the Presidency seem to ignore:
Quote:
Another camp was dead set against letting the people elect the president by a straight popular vote. First, they thought 18th-century voters lacked the resources to be fully informed about the candidates, especially in rural outposts. Second, they feared a headstrong “democratic mob” steering the country astray. And third, a populist president appealing directly to the people could command dangerous amounts of power.
The first reason is (possibly) less relevent today. The second (being that when the system was being created, there were no "parties") Could describe the situation today, as each party could likely fit the category of a "Democratic mob". The third option - Imagine a more "popular" version of the previous President...
16 Sep 2021, 3:01 am
Pepe wrote:
I was under the impression the Electoral College system always favoured the Republicans.
Democrats like to b***h and moan about low population states like Wyoming carrying too much weight (also in the Senate), but they always manage to omit all the small East Coast states that reliably vote Democrat, such as Maryland, Vermont, etc. It's not like the GOP is angelic, they have plenty of hypocrisies of their own, but Democrats are in a whole different category when it comes to bending the rules when it suits them, then complaining that those same rules are unfair when turned against them, e.g. their recent attitude towards the filibuster.
16 Sep 2021, 3:20 am
Dox47 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I was under the impression the Electoral College system always favoured the Republicans.
Democrats like to b***h and moan about low population states like Wyoming carrying too much weight (also in the Senate), but they always manage to omit all the small East Coast states that reliably vote Democrat, such as Maryland, Vermont, etc. It's not like the GOP is angelic, they have plenty of hypocrisies of their own, but Democrats are in a whole different category when it comes to bending the rules when it suits them, then complaining that those same rules are unfair when turned against them, e.g. their recent attitude towards the filibuster.
Hypocrisy is part and parcel of politics.
16 Sep 2021, 3:30 am
Dox47 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I was under the impression the Electoral College system always favoured the Republicans.
Democrats like to b***h and moan about low population states like Wyoming carrying too much weight (also in the Senate), but they always manage to omit all the small East Coast states that reliably vote Democrat, such as Maryland, Vermont, etc. It's not like the GOP is angelic, they have plenty of hypocrisies of their own, but Democrats are in a whole different category when it comes to bending the rules when it suits them, then complaining that those same rules are unfair when turned against them, e.g. their recent attitude towards the filibuster.
You mean the old "filibuster is good when we can take advantage of it, but needs to be discarded when we can't" attitude?
One way to either cause more problems, or stop the complaints about the electoral college would be for each state to do something along the lines of the Congressional district method, which would give individual voters across the country more "power" than a "winner takes all" system for the state, while preventing only the more popular areas\states of the country receiving "attention" and the less populated areas\states being ignored under a "popular vote" system.
16 Sep 2021, 8:24 am
Pepe wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, that system. All the more proof that the Electoral College is an archaic thing that was devised in a time when social elites (the founding fathers) feared democracy. Even Richard Nixon of all people voiced his concern that a Presidential candidate could lose the popular vote but carry the Electoral College - which a bloated orange conman with aspirations for becoming an autocratic strongman managed to do.
The Democratic party, including you, were perfectly happy with this "archaic" system when it benefited them, it was only when it delivered a result they didn't like that it became a problem, much like the filibuster.
I was under the impression the Electoral College system always favoured the Republicans.
I have learnt something new.
I'm getting smarter more knowledgeable every day.
The Electoral college is necessary because the United States is not a democracy. Its a constitutional republic. The founders knew that democracies lead to dictatorships.
16 Sep 2021, 8:28 am
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, that system. All the more proof that the Electoral College is an archaic thing that was devised in a time when social elites (the founding fathers) feared democracy. Even Richard Nixon of all people voiced his concern that a Presidential candidate could lose the popular vote but carry the Electoral College - which a bloated orange conman with aspirations for becoming an autocratic strongman managed to do.
The Democratic party, including you, were perfectly happy with this "archaic" system when it benefited them, it was only when it delivered a result they didn't like that it became a problem, much like the filibuster.
I was under the impression the Electoral College system always favoured the Republicans.
I have learnt something new.
I'm getting smarter more knowledgeable every day.
The Electoral college is necessary because the United States is not a democracy. Its a constitutional republic. The founders knew that democracies lead to dictatorships.
So do Republics. Are you unfamiliar with the history of the Roman Empire before it collapsed? They were a Republic too once.
16 Sep 2021, 8:30 am
Dox47 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I was under the impression the Electoral College system always favoured the Republicans.
Democrats like to b***h and moan about low population states like Wyoming carrying too much weight (also in the Senate), but they always manage to omit all the small East Coast states that reliably vote Democrat, such as Maryland, Vermont, etc. It's not like the GOP is angelic, they have plenty of hypocrisies of their own, but Democrats are in a whole different category when it comes to bending the rules when it suits them, then complaining that those same rules are unfair when turned against them, e.g. their recent attitude towards the filibuster.
True
Also the democracy loving Democrats have a very unfair primary system. Super delegates to the Democratic National Convention are delegates whose vote counts as more than a regular delegate thereby making sure that the will of the people is not a factor.
16 Sep 2021, 8:47 am
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I was under the impression the Electoral College system always favoured the Republicans.
Democrats like to b***h and moan about low population states like Wyoming carrying too much weight (also in the Senate), but they always manage to omit all the small East Coast states that reliably vote Democrat, such as Maryland, Vermont, etc. It's not like the GOP is angelic, they have plenty of hypocrisies of their own, but Democrats are in a whole different category when it comes to bending the rules when it suits them, then complaining that those same rules are unfair when turned against them, e.g. their recent attitude towards the filibuster.
True
Also the democracy loving Democrats have a very unfair primary system. Super delegates to the Democratic National Convention are delegates whose vote counts as more than a regular delegate thereby making sure that the will of the people is not a factor.
Wow, seems to me like your statements just proved my hunch right about GOPers being in favor of fascism nowadays.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,547
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
16 Sep 2021, 4:54 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,547
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
16 Sep 2021, 5:01 pm
Mr Reynholm wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, that system. All the more proof that the Electoral College is an archaic thing that was devised in a time when social elites (the founding fathers) feared democracy. Even Richard Nixon of all people voiced his concern that a Presidential candidate could lose the popular vote but carry the Electoral College - which a bloated orange conman with aspirations for becoming an autocratic strongman managed to do.
The Democratic party, including you, were perfectly happy with this "archaic" system when it benefited them, it was only when it delivered a result they didn't like that it became a problem, much like the filibuster.
I was under the impression the Electoral College system always favoured the Republicans.
I have learnt something new.
I'm getting smarter more knowledgeable every day.
The Electoral college is necessary because the United States is not a democracy. Its a constitutional republic. The founders knew that democracies lead to dictatorships.
The claim that America is a "constitutional republic" has been a rallying cry of the fascistic far right at least as far back as the John Birch Society in the 1950's. Without the popular vote available to the people, that conttitution isn't going to last very long.
Yes, the founding fathers had established the Electoral College to prevent some populist demagogue just like Trump from coming into power. But Alexander Hamilton, who had devised the system, came to regret it, and had attempted to have it removed from the Presidential election, but couldn't gain enough congressional support.
16 Sep 2021, 5:36 pm
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