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kraftiekortie
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02 Feb 2017, 8:04 pm

It's better when people actually go out and speak with individual people, rather than adopt an ideology and stick blindly to it, come hell, high water, or evidence to the contrary.



jrjones9933
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02 Feb 2017, 8:12 pm

adifferentname wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I just don't believe in the "alt-Right" ideology; it's too reactionary.


It's not so much something to be believed in as something to be understood. From what I've gleaned by reading a great deal of material, talking to more than a handful of self-described Alt-Right people and observing how they function as a movement, it's an incredibly diverse (though mostly young) group of people who reject the "left" but also reject the "right" due to their perception that they're no better than the "left" or have "sold out" to them.

There's definitely an attempt to subvert the entire movement by genuine white supremacists who have unparalleled freedom to express their bile due to the the Alt-Right's rejection of taboos and political correctness, but I'm convinced that particular problem is (thus far) massively overstated, having been ignited by Hillary Clinton's speech on the subject and fanned by the subsequent media coverage. That mainstream perception doesn't fit my perception of them at all.

There's also some crossover with the culture that grew out of the anti-media backlash of GamerGate (another woefully misunderstood movement), which makes sense considering the antiestablishmentarianism and distrust of the Mainstream Media that they share.

I'm by no means an expert, but it's my opinion that the Alt-Right consists primarily of disenfranchised young people who don't feel their needs and interests are represented by the establishment, feel betrayed by government policies they disagree with or deem harmful and who are rallying under a single banner in order to make a great deal of noise. I mentioned elsewhere that they've been referred to as "Political Punk Rock", which seems accurate to me.

Oh, and they're not going anywhere anytime soon.

I never thought I'd see trolls lauded in such a manner. Thank you for putting all your arguments into context.


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adifferentname
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02 Feb 2017, 8:16 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I just don't believe in the "alt-Right" ideology; it's too reactionary.


It's not so much something to be believed in as something to be understood. From what I've gleaned by reading a great deal of material, talking to more than a handful of self-described Alt-Right people and observing how they function as a movement, it's an incredibly diverse (though mostly young) group of people who reject the "left" but also reject the "right" due to their perception that they're no better than the "left" or have "sold out" to them.

There's definitely an attempt to subvert the entire movement by genuine white supremacists who have unparalleled freedom to express their bile due to the the Alt-Right's rejection of taboos and political correctness, but I'm convinced that particular problem is (thus far) massively overstated, having been ignited by Hillary Clinton's speech on the subject and fanned by the subsequent media coverage. That mainstream perception doesn't fit my perception of them at all.

There's also some crossover with the culture that grew out of the anti-media backlash of GamerGate (another woefully misunderstood movement), which makes sense considering the antiestablishmentarianism and distrust of the Mainstream Media that they share.

I'm by no means an expert, but it's my opinion that the Alt-Right consists primarily of disenfranchised young people who don't feel their needs and interests are represented by the establishment, feel betrayed by government policies they disagree with or deem harmful and who are rallying under a single banner in order to make a great deal of noise. I mentioned elsewhere that they've been referred to as "Political Punk Rock", which seems accurate to me.

Oh, and they're not going anywhere anytime soon.

I never thought I'd see trolls lauded in such a manner. Thank you for putting all your arguments into context.


Trolling is a behaviour, not a personality archetype. The implication in your second sentence is an example of such.



feral botanist
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02 Feb 2017, 10:02 pm

adifferentname wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I just don't believe in the "alt-Right" ideology; it's too reactionary.


It's not so much something to be believed in as something to be understood. From what I've gleaned by reading a great deal of material, talking to more than a handful of self-described Alt-Right people and observing how they function as a movement, it's an incredibly diverse (though mostly young) group of people who reject the "left" but also reject the "right" due to their perception that they're no better than the "left" or have "sold out" to them.

There's definitely an attempt to subvert the entire movement by genuine white supremacists who have unparalleled freedom to express their bile due to the the Alt-Right's rejection of taboos and political correctness, but I'm convinced that particular problem is (thus far) massively overstated, having been ignited by Hillary Clinton's speech on the subject and fanned by the subsequent media coverage. That mainstream perception doesn't fit my perception of them at all.

There's also some crossover with the culture that grew out of the anti-media backlash of GamerGate (another woefully misunderstood movement), which makes sense considering the antiestablishmentarianism and distrust of the Mainstream Media that they share.

I'm by no means an expert, but it's my opinion that the Alt-Right consists primarily of disenfranchised young people who don't feel their needs and interests are represented by the establishment, feel betrayed by government policies they disagree with or deem harmful and who are rallying under a single banner in order to make a great deal of noise. I mentioned elsewhere that they've been referred to as "Political Punk Rock", which seems accurate to me.

Oh, and they're not going anywhere anytime soon.



It is a belief alright.
Beliefs do not depend of facts and if they understood it, the would know it for the BS it is.

It has been referred to as "political punk rock" by you, because you really want that to be true.



Raptor
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02 Feb 2017, 10:06 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I just don't believe in the "alt-Right" ideology; it's too reactionary.


It's not so much something to be believed in as something to be understood. From what I've gleaned by reading a great deal of material, talking to more than a handful of self-described Alt-Right people and observing how they function as a movement, it's an incredibly diverse (though mostly young) group of people who reject the "left" but also reject the "right" due to their perception that they're no better than the "left" or have "sold out" to them.

There's definitely an attempt to subvert the entire movement by genuine white supremacists who have unparalleled freedom to express their bile due to the the Alt-Right's rejection of taboos and political correctness, but I'm convinced that particular problem is (thus far) massively overstated, having been ignited by Hillary Clinton's speech on the subject and fanned by the subsequent media coverage. That mainstream perception doesn't fit my perception of them at all.

There's also some crossover with the culture that grew out of the anti-media backlash of GamerGate (another woefully misunderstood movement), which makes sense considering the antiestablishmentarianism and distrust of the Mainstream Media that they share.

I'm by no means an expert, but it's my opinion that the Alt-Right consists primarily of disenfranchised young people who don't feel their needs and interests are represented by the establishment, feel betrayed by government policies they disagree with or deem harmful and who are rallying under a single banner in order to make a great deal of noise. I mentioned elsewhere that they've been referred to as "Political Punk Rock", which seems accurate to me.

Oh, and they're not going anywhere anytime soon.

I never thought I'd see trolls lauded in such a manner. Thank you for putting all your arguments into context.

Not trying to silence objectivity are you? :shameonyou:


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02 Feb 2017, 10:08 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Since I've been labeled a fascist a few times...

LOL Apparently, by people who, like most here, suffer greatly from a lack of reading comprehension----Nationalist, yes; dictatorial government, NO WAY!!

It's best to not only allow them to believe we are fascists or nazis but give them little things build on it in thier minds.
Any butthurt they experience can be considered self inflicted since they elected to stir the hornets nest when they didn't have to.

LOL Yep----definitely keeps ME entertained!! LOL


Careful, someone might label you a T-R-O-L-L and accuse you of taking pleasure in the suffering of others.


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adifferentname
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03 Feb 2017, 3:57 am

feral botanist wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I just don't believe in the "alt-Right" ideology; it's too reactionary.


It's not so much something to be believed in as something to be understood. From what I've gleaned by reading a great deal of material, talking to more than a handful of self-described Alt-Right people and observing how they function as a movement, it's an incredibly diverse (though mostly young) group of people who reject the "left" but also reject the "right" due to their perception that they're no better than the "left" or have "sold out" to them.

There's definitely an attempt to subvert the entire movement by genuine white supremacists who have unparalleled freedom to express their bile due to the the Alt-Right's rejection of taboos and political correctness, but I'm convinced that particular problem is (thus far) massively overstated, having been ignited by Hillary Clinton's speech on the subject and fanned by the subsequent media coverage. That mainstream perception doesn't fit my perception of them at all.

There's also some crossover with the culture that grew out of the anti-media backlash of GamerGate (another woefully misunderstood movement), which makes sense considering the antiestablishmentarianism and distrust of the Mainstream Media that they share.

I'm by no means an expert, but it's my opinion that the Alt-Right consists primarily of disenfranchised young people who don't feel their needs and interests are represented by the establishment, feel betrayed by government policies they disagree with or deem harmful and who are rallying under a single banner in order to make a great deal of noise. I mentioned elsewhere that they've been referred to as "Political Punk Rock", which seems accurate to me.

Oh, and they're not going anywhere anytime soon.



It is a belief alright.
Beliefs do not depend of facts and if they understood it, the would know it for the BS it is.


Did you intend to contradict anything I said, or are you just popping in to demonstrate your lack of reading comprehension skills again?

Quote:
It has been referred to as "political punk rock" by you, because you really want that to be true.


Or was it your wish to demonstrate your skill with ambiguous language and at mistakenly inferring desires from text which contained no reference to such?

It really does seem as though many of the faults I attribute to your thinking are, in fact, errors in language. Do you have some sort of learning disability beyond autism that I should be aware of, because I'd hate to find out I'm berating you for something that is not actually your fault.

Oh, and in case you meant to express doubt that it's been referred to as such, I'll take the handful of seconds you neglected to: Google search results for alt+right+political+punk+rock



adifferentname
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03 Feb 2017, 4:08 am

Raptor wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I just don't believe in the "alt-Right" ideology; it's too reactionary.


It's not so much something to be believed in as something to be understood. From what I've gleaned by reading a great deal of material, talking to more than a handful of self-described Alt-Right people and observing how they function as a movement, it's an incredibly diverse (though mostly young) group of people who reject the "left" but also reject the "right" due to their perception that they're no better than the "left" or have "sold out" to them.

There's definitely an attempt to subvert the entire movement by genuine white supremacists who have unparalleled freedom to express their bile due to the the Alt-Right's rejection of taboos and political correctness, but I'm convinced that particular problem is (thus far) massively overstated, having been ignited by Hillary Clinton's speech on the subject and fanned by the subsequent media coverage. That mainstream perception doesn't fit my perception of them at all.

There's also some crossover with the culture that grew out of the anti-media backlash of GamerGate (another woefully misunderstood movement), which makes sense considering the antiestablishmentarianism and distrust of the Mainstream Media that they share.

I'm by no means an expert, but it's my opinion that the Alt-Right consists primarily of disenfranchised young people who don't feel their needs and interests are represented by the establishment, feel betrayed by government policies they disagree with or deem harmful and who are rallying under a single banner in order to make a great deal of noise. I mentioned elsewhere that they've been referred to as "Political Punk Rock", which seems accurate to me.

Oh, and they're not going anywhere anytime soon.

I never thought I'd see trolls lauded in such a manner. Thank you for putting all your arguments into context.

Not trying to silence objectivity are you? :shameonyou:


He doesn't recognise it as objectivity, so that's not a fair criticism. This, however, is.



marshall
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03 Feb 2017, 5:12 am

Jacoby wrote:
What happened at Berkely last night was a joke, anyone associated with the university should be embarassed. To think, this was the place the 'free speech movement' started, now they support brownshirt tactics and the violent supression of speech.

You have proof the University itself endorsed the violence? If not then you have no right to advocate retaliation against the university.



jrjones9933
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03 Feb 2017, 5:25 am

Using violence this way makes no sense. The problem is the honor of speaking, given the content, and not the content itself. So, you dishonor the sponsor and the speaker. Easy.

This chaotic violence just dishonors the other protesters.

We're in the wrong thread, but a good question here is what we the differences between the goals of the protesters and anarchy, and which better serves Trump?


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adifferentname
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03 Feb 2017, 6:31 am

jrjones9933 wrote:
Using violence this way makes no sense. The problem is the honor of speaking, given the content, and not the content itself. So, you dishonor the sponsor and the speaker. Easy.

This chaotic violence just dishonors the other protesters.

We're in the wrong thread, but a good question here is what we the differences between the goals of the protesters and anarchy, and which better serves Trump?


If "antifa" has a secret agenda to guarantee Trump a second term, they're doing a stellar job.



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03 Feb 2017, 12:05 pm

Raptor wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Since I've been labeled a fascist a few times...

LOL Apparently, by people who, like most here, suffer greatly from a lack of reading comprehension----Nationalist, yes; dictatorial government, NO WAY!!

It's best to not only allow them to believe we are fascists or nazis but give them little things build on it in thier minds.
Any butthurt they experience can be considered self inflicted since they elected to stir the hornets nest when they didn't have to.

LOL Yep----definitely keeps ME entertained!! LOL

Careful, someone might label you a T-R-O-L-L and accuse you of taking pleasure in the suffering of others.

And, that would be bad, because..... why? LOLOL




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03 Feb 2017, 5:47 pm

Image



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03 Feb 2017, 5:54 pm

EzraS wrote:
Image

He's got it right. We do have fascists in America. Here they are, celebrating Kristallnacht in Berkeley, California:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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03 Feb 2017, 5:56 pm

Should I start blaming all Trump supporters for the Mosque being shot up? Because I don't see how that is any different from what you guys are trying to do to the left with these ridiculous posts.



EzraS
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03 Feb 2017, 6:03 pm

Certain people will argue, "that's not us, those are anarchists!". But it seems to me that they are the ones who set the stage for these acts to take place. There's been incidences of violence from the beginning and it just keeps getting worse.