Glad I Don't Live In America.

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I think Dox47 is probably correct that some concepts related to CRT might be taught somewhere, and they are using the term as short hand. As I said in my earlier post, I find that inappropriate.

But I am not aware the derivative Dox described is taught very much, either.

Reality is that the volume of essential information schools are charged with teaching is insanely large, and there isn't a lot of room in the curriculum.

As for parents complaining ... there will always be parents complaining no matter what a school does. It's constant. Parents are all different and don't agree with each other on what the priorities should be. It shouldn't be national news and it shouldn't be a political talking point. Teachers have enough to deal with, IMHO.

Could it be that what is being taught to your children aligns with your personal beliefs, and so doesn't "stand out" to you as being "unusual" and so worthy of further investigation, as opposed to those who disagree with the tenets of "CRT" and so see evidence of it when it occurs? Or that they were not discussing this with you?

To a person who believed in CRT (in whole or in part), hearing another making reference to "systemic racism" or "white privilege" would seem natural, and uncontroversial, whereas to a person who believed all people were equal, hearing either of those statements would stand out... Similarly, if introduced slowly, the change may not even be realised, and passed off as merely an "adolescent's passion" that miraculously appeared, rather than something which had been carefully cultivated.

After all, if CRT (in whole, or in part) wasn't being taught, why would there have been:

Source: https://nypost.com/2021/07/04/teachers-union-vows-to-fight-back-against-critical-race-theory-critics/

Or:

Source: https://nypost.com/2021/08/05/teachers-union-sues-mom-over-requests-for-crt-curriculum-info/

Or how about:

Source: https://news.yahoo.com/school-board-group-asks-biden-165010731.html

While I can't deny that the first paragraph is not entirely impossible, I am wondering if you see the problem in your second paragraph?

Believing that all people are equal - which liberals most certainly believe - is not naturally contradictory to recognizing that systemic racism and white privilege exist. It is startlingly clear in US History that for most of it the nation did NOT actually treat all people as being treated as equal. "Equal" in the constitution pretty much meant "free men" (white) and not their wives or slaves. After the civil war, when slaves were declared free and given voting rights, the southern states went to work terrorizing black citizens and engaging in other voter suppression tactics until only 1% or so felt free to vote. Our constitution originally counted slaves as 3/5ths of a person (they didn't get to vote; they were just used for allocating representatives to the south). There is, clearly, a solid history behind believing treatment has been disparate. In modern times, study after study proves that citizens may talk equality, but they don't act with equality. There are significant differences in medical treatment, treatment at traffic stops, the ability to walk freely in one's own neighborhood, preschool opportunities, elementary school educational opportunities, how much money you will be offered for selling your home (its been tested), and more.

I believe that all people are created equal. What I also see is that we are, as a country, having a little trouble acting that way in practice. I am pragmatic enough to realize that many proposed solutions are not actually solutions, but denying the problem is even worse, IMHO.

As for teachers having an issue with the political prohibitions, first, most of your articles carefully word to address CRT derivatives, not CRT; and second, I would suggest that teachers rally against all political educational restrictions. We actually don't have many; there is more about what TO teach than not to teach. These types of "do not teach" laws tend to be unevenly enforced and difficult to interpret, leaving teachers exposed to legal charges for simply trying to do their jobs. It's a minefield. In some cases, districts will have to throw out and replace expensive textbooks out of fear one single paragraph will offend. That is money better spent on salaries in our chronically underfunded schools. Basically, politics and schools don't mix well, and never have.

I feel we much teach truthful history, without political bent.

Within a US context, to put individual white students in the “oppressor” class, and put nonwhite students in the “victim” class, is just plain wrong. Very much an oversimplification.

I believe this sort of thing is sometimes presented in some high school/college courses. But this is certainly not the ideological position of most colleges I have encountered.

To say that nonwhite folks were oppressed in the past is true. To say that present-day white folks studying in colleges are “oppressors” is false.

I doubt that this extremist line (that white= oppressor) is taught in most colleges….except maybe in some isolated courses.

This one. You don't have to watch the whole film (It's not bad, but not the best. Always good if you're a Firth fan), just skip to parts of it. The beginning starts off with the accent.

Agreed.
Mom is not on the same wavelength are most many of us.

How about:
It isn't "Global Warming" any longer.
It is "Climate Change", to factor in the anomalies contradicting the concept.

Saw it it was a very good scene but actually had no issues with the accent .. it did not sound very thick . But much of the conversation seemed to be with the eyes . If i listen carefully and the person are not speaking in Gaelic or some equivolent , usually cant get what is said pretty well.
thank you for sorting that thread for me.

I find it extremely frustrating that you don't read on to find out what I've done with a counterpoint before passing an "is" judgement on me.

Because sometimes I actually do take new data in. I'm not all fight all the time.

This is how it appears to me.
It may be a sign of confirmation bias.



You are not suggesting there are ideologist fifth columnists in the academic ranks, are you?
Are you suggesting, further, that these infiltrators will recruit other like thinking people to bolster their political influence over time?

If so, whoa!
The sneaky bastardos! <satire>



Argh!
You had to bring "Fox News" into the discussion.
I now have to shut down my brain to quarantine my partisan mindset from possibly being influenced by a new way of seeing things.
After all, while the devil is capable of telling the Truth at times, the right-wing media outlets never do. <satire>

I've never heard of the segregated class lesson occurring. Ever, and I'm still pretty connected to the world of secondary education.

What I HAVE seen, and often, is the "take a step" game. "Take a step if you grew up with two parents in your household." That one I know is always asked, I am less certain of the rest of the list, but I believe it is things along the lines of "take a step if you've never had to worry where you were going to sleep," "take a step if your parents read to you as a child," and "take a step if you've never been stopped by a police officer." It basically goes through factors that data shows improve or harm the odds for a child. When the game is over, the students see where they stand in relation to their peers as far as statistical advantages go.

It's based in DATA but I wonder if I've just freaked our conservatives out and they will say it's a CRT derivative. Well, I'm putting it out there knowing they will dissect at will, and if that forces us to rethink, so be it. This is something real, not a headline, not a claim, and not a talking point.

From the perspective of my children, I can say it was a combination of eye opening and confirming: I'd already taught them they were relatively lucky in life, and should be generous and accepting with classmates who aren't as fortunate, but they weren't aware of how many little things beyond money went into the concept of "being lucky in life." What I can't say is how it made the kids left closer to the starting line, the unfortunate, feel. Affirmed that the sense they've lived with that they have to work harder and do more is real? Embarrassed that their peers now know their secret (most poor children try to hide it)? I really don't know, but I would hope this "game" wasn't being used if it was painful or harmful for them. That would defeat the purpose, in my eyes.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 03 Oct 2021, 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You are speaking with The Oracle of truth.
Someone who has spent virtually their entire life getting to the Truth.
Embrace my wisdom and become enlightened.
Om mani padme hum.

While you do seem to have a desire to adopt the scientific methodology, you also seem to view the world from a leftist perspective, *consistently*.

The odourous skunk has spoken.

I don't consider it a fault that I actually care about and want to give grace to people. Everyone, regardless of politics.

But it should be obvious that I am also pragmatic and willing to recognize that sometimes what is intended as kindness and grace doesn't actually play out that way in real life.

And I'm human, as we all are. There are no actual oracles on this board.

And this will happen, why?

Society is built on the foundation of corruption.
"Might makes right" trumps decency.
Consider Nazi China.

Humanity, by definition, is self-absorb and egocentric.
Even altruists are merely satisfying their innate emotional needs.
Not that I am saying it is a bad thing.
I'd rather a world of people with good intentions than one entirely populated by sociopaths and psychopaths.



In an Australian context, I have spoken to teachers who think they have a right to usurp the parents role in moral and ideological education.
I don't think it is as uncommon as you seem to think.



“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.” -Thomas Jefferson "

I don't understand how American culture has developed this belief that white people are the bad guys against other races. Don't they study the history of how every race has committed atrocities against one another around the world throughout history, and every race has their genocidal baggage so to speak?

Or do Americans not bother to read that and only study their own history in their own country?

It is irrelevant what happened to people before they were brought to America or choose to move to America. It only matters what we’ve chosen and how we’ve acted.

And we’ve got a solid history of putting it in writing that someone with black skin isn’t equal to someone with white skin. It wasn’t until the 1960’s that we put it in writing that rights should be equal despite skin color.

I never adjusted what I expected of my kids because Johnny down the street’s parents did X. A theft doesn’t get justified because someone else steals, too. What is right is right; what is wrong is wrong. No straw men.