The Right to Die
21 Aug 2009, 12:27 pm
rensilaer wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
My grandfather (who was a well-respected vicar in the Church of England) had two strokes in the same week (this was nearly three years ago), and was half-paralysed. After the first one, he chose not to be resuscitated if it happened again, because he felt it would be somewhat pointless to stay alive and suffer. So he died, but at least now he's at peace. I think others should also be at liberty to make this decision for themselves.
I think I read something in the paper recently saying that the Catholic Church has relaxed its stance on suicide. I'll try and find the article.
I think I read something in the paper recently saying that the Catholic Church has relaxed its stance on suicide. I'll try and find the article.
Most places I know permit a person to refuse medical care and the create DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) orders to inform medical personnel of their wish to be allowed to die.
There is a vast difference between choosing to allow nature to take it's course and forcing it to happen where it would not have otherwise happened.
What about people who are doomed to live in excrutiating, soul-defeating pain who aren't strictly going to die soon. I have a DNR on record that my parents know about that I made when I was 20 saying that if my life is in peril, no extraordinary measures are to be made and that if it looks as though I will be a para or quadropeligic, to simply let me die. Life shouldn't be forced on someone who simply doesn't want to be in pain anymore.
As I have mentioned here before, my son became a quadriplegic at the age of 3 and needed continuous artificial respiration through a hole in his throat. He operated his computer with a stick in his mouth. No doubt there were regular hair raising emergencies that still persist in my dreams (he died in 1996) He lived to the age of thirty-six and found living well worthwhile. He was a brilliant guy and communicated daily with experts and friends on the internet and played in tournaments with the Japanese game Go. Suicide was never a consideration. A limited life can still be very worthwhile.
21 Aug 2009, 12:38 pm
Sand wrote:
rensilaer wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
My grandfather (who was a well-respected vicar in the Church of England) had two strokes in the same week (this was nearly three years ago), and was half-paralysed. After the first one, he chose not to be resuscitated if it happened again, because he felt it would be somewhat pointless to stay alive and suffer. So he died, but at least now he's at peace. I think others should also be at liberty to make this decision for themselves.
I think I read something in the paper recently saying that the Catholic Church has relaxed its stance on suicide. I'll try and find the article.
I think I read something in the paper recently saying that the Catholic Church has relaxed its stance on suicide. I'll try and find the article.
Most places I know permit a person to refuse medical care and the create DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) orders to inform medical personnel of their wish to be allowed to die.
There is a vast difference between choosing to allow nature to take it's course and forcing it to happen where it would not have otherwise happened.
What about people who are doomed to live in excrutiating, soul-defeating pain who aren't strictly going to die soon. I have a DNR on record that my parents know about that I made when I was 20 saying that if my life is in peril, no extraordinary measures are to be made and that if it looks as though I will be a para or quadropeligic, to simply let me die. Life shouldn't be forced on someone who simply doesn't want to be in pain anymore.
As I have mentioned here before, my son became a quadriplegic at the age of 3 and needed continuous artificial respiration through a hole in his throat. He operated his computer with a stick in his mouth. No doubt there were regular hair raising emergencies that still persist in my dreams (he died in 1996) He lived to the age of thirty-six and found living well worthwhile. He was a brilliant guy and communicated daily with experts and friends on the internet and played in tournaments with the Japanese game Go. Suicide was never a consideration. A limited life can still be very worthwhile.
I would never ever presume to invalidate your opinions and experiences and I cannot even imagine the triumph and beauty and struggle you went through together. However, for me, personally (and please let me reiterate, I would make this choice only for myself), if I lost the ability to walk or to move/breathe on my own, I do not wish to continue living, as the quality of life I had known would be so irrevokably diminished, I would be living in a prison in my own body.
I'd rather die the man I was than live as whatever it was I had become.
21 Aug 2009, 12:53 pm
rensilaer wrote:
Sand wrote:
rensilaer wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
My grandfather (who was a well-respected vicar in the Church of England) had two strokes in the same week (this was nearly three years ago), and was half-paralysed. After the first one, he chose not to be resuscitated if it happened again, because he felt it would be somewhat pointless to stay alive and suffer. So he died, but at least now he's at peace. I think others should also be at liberty to make this decision for themselves.
I think I read something in the paper recently saying that the Catholic Church has relaxed its stance on suicide. I'll try and find the article.
I think I read something in the paper recently saying that the Catholic Church has relaxed its stance on suicide. I'll try and find the article.
Most places I know permit a person to refuse medical care and the create DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) orders to inform medical personnel of their wish to be allowed to die.
There is a vast difference between choosing to allow nature to take it's course and forcing it to happen where it would not have otherwise happened.
What about people who are doomed to live in excrutiating, soul-defeating pain who aren't strictly going to die soon. I have a DNR on record that my parents know about that I made when I was 20 saying that if my life is in peril, no extraordinary measures are to be made and that if it looks as though I will be a para or quadropeligic, to simply let me die. Life shouldn't be forced on someone who simply doesn't want to be in pain anymore.
As I have mentioned here before, my son became a quadriplegic at the age of 3 and needed continuous artificial respiration through a hole in his throat. He operated his computer with a stick in his mouth. No doubt there were regular hair raising emergencies that still persist in my dreams (he died in 1996) He lived to the age of thirty-six and found living well worthwhile. He was a brilliant guy and communicated daily with experts and friends on the internet and played in tournaments with the Japanese game Go. Suicide was never a consideration. A limited life can still be very worthwhile.
I would never ever presume to invalidate your opinions and experiences and I cannot even imagine the triumph and beauty and struggle you went through together. However, for me, personally (and please let me reiterate, I would make this choice only for myself), if I lost the ability to walk or to move/breathe on my own, I do not wish to continue living, as the quality of life I had known would be so irrevokably diminished, I would be living in a prison in my own body.
I'd rather die the man I was than live as whatever it was I had become.
Of course I would not wish that life on anyone but life can still have great gifts under terribly difficult conditions. Current technology can help a great deal.
21 Aug 2009, 1:09 pm
number5 wrote:
Sometimes a disability is the greatest gift we can receive. You may learn to value more greatly the things that are truly most important in life.
Or I can reflect day in and day out on everything that I've lost, becoming a bitter shell of a man who needs to rely on everyone for assistance on the most mundane of affairs.
I am fiercely independent and anything that would make me completely dependent is not anything I'm interested in exploring.
21 Aug 2009, 1:10 pm
rensilaer wrote:
Sand wrote:
rensilaer wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
My grandfather (who was a well-respected vicar in the Church of England) had two strokes in the same week (this was nearly three years ago), and was half-paralysed. After the first one, he chose not to be resuscitated if it happened again, because he felt it would be somewhat pointless to stay alive and suffer. So he died, but at least now he's at peace. I think others should also be at liberty to make this decision for themselves.
I think I read something in the paper recently saying that the Catholic Church has relaxed its stance on suicide. I'll try and find the article.
I think I read something in the paper recently saying that the Catholic Church has relaxed its stance on suicide. I'll try and find the article.
Most places I know permit a person to refuse medical care and the create DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) orders to inform medical personnel of their wish to be allowed to die.
There is a vast difference between choosing to allow nature to take it's course and forcing it to happen where it would not have otherwise happened.
What about people who are doomed to live in excrutiating, soul-defeating pain who aren't strictly going to die soon. I have a DNR on record that my parents know about that I made when I was 20 saying that if my life is in peril, no extraordinary measures are to be made and that if it looks as though I will be a para or quadropeligic, to simply let me die. Life shouldn't be forced on someone who simply doesn't want to be in pain anymore.
As I have mentioned here before, my son became a quadriplegic at the age of 3 and needed continuous artificial respiration through a hole in his throat. He operated his computer with a stick in his mouth. No doubt there were regular hair raising emergencies that still persist in my dreams (he died in 1996) He lived to the age of thirty-six and found living well worthwhile. He was a brilliant guy and communicated daily with experts and friends on the internet and played in tournaments with the Japanese game Go. Suicide was never a consideration. A limited life can still be very worthwhile.
I would never ever presume to invalidate your opinions and experiences and I cannot even imagine the triumph and beauty and struggle you went through together. However, for me, personally (and please let me reiterate, I would make this choice only for myself), if I lost the ability to walk or to move/breathe on my own, I do not wish to continue living, as the quality of life I had known would be so irrevokably diminished, I would be living in a prison in my own body.
I'd rather die the man I was than live as whatever it was I had become.
I can say this much. If you wanted to "let nature take its course" as a quadriplegic, you could chose to refuse hydration and feeding and expire from malnutrition and thirst. I suppose some would see that as being no different than downing a "cocktail" to hasten the result, but you have (or should have) the right to REJECT things like food, water, medical intervention because you choose that life is no longer worth living.
This may be an odd Christian perspective, but I'm also into survivalism, and the cold reality is that if you can't care for yourself, nature would eliminate you pretty quickly, so someone who can't adapt to care for themselves, I can understand them wanting to let nature run its course, and I don't see that as "suicide," even though we live in a society that makes it very possible for handicapped people to have a fair quality of life in many cases.
21 Aug 2009, 1:11 pm
Sand wrote:
rensilaer wrote:
Sand wrote:
rensilaer wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
My grandfather (who was a well-respected vicar in the Church of England) had two strokes in the same week (this was nearly three years ago), and was half-paralysed. After the first one, he chose not to be resuscitated if it happened again, because he felt it would be somewhat pointless to stay alive and suffer. So he died, but at least now he's at peace. I think others should also be at liberty to make this decision for themselves.
I think I read something in the paper recently saying that the Catholic Church has relaxed its stance on suicide. I'll try and find the article.
I think I read something in the paper recently saying that the Catholic Church has relaxed its stance on suicide. I'll try and find the article.
Most places I know permit a person to refuse medical care and the create DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) orders to inform medical personnel of their wish to be allowed to die.
There is a vast difference between choosing to allow nature to take it's course and forcing it to happen where it would not have otherwise happened.
What about people who are doomed to live in excrutiating, soul-defeating pain who aren't strictly going to die soon. I have a DNR on record that my parents know about that I made when I was 20 saying that if my life is in peril, no extraordinary measures are to be made and that if it looks as though I will be a para or quadropeligic, to simply let me die. Life shouldn't be forced on someone who simply doesn't want to be in pain anymore.
As I have mentioned here before, my son became a quadriplegic at the age of 3 and needed continuous artificial respiration through a hole in his throat. He operated his computer with a stick in his mouth. No doubt there were regular hair raising emergencies that still persist in my dreams (he died in 1996) He lived to the age of thirty-six and found living well worthwhile. He was a brilliant guy and communicated daily with experts and friends on the internet and played in tournaments with the Japanese game Go. Suicide was never a consideration. A limited life can still be very worthwhile.
I would never ever presume to invalidate your opinions and experiences and I cannot even imagine the triumph and beauty and struggle you went through together. However, for me, personally (and please let me reiterate, I would make this choice only for myself), if I lost the ability to walk or to move/breathe on my own, I do not wish to continue living, as the quality of life I had known would be so irrevokably diminished, I would be living in a prison in my own body.
I'd rather die the man I was than live as whatever it was I had become.
Of course I would not wish that life on anyone but life can still have great gifts under terribly difficult conditions. Current technology can help a great deal.
I'm sure that's true in some cases. I've seen the murderball guys. But, for me, I just do not wish to ever go down that road. I've always examined this belief and if it changes, my DNR will be modified, but I just don't see that happening.
