Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

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ASPowerations
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01 Jun 2010, 7:31 pm

jc6chan wrote:

nara44 wrote:

jc6chan wrote:

Also, they are many groups comprised of BOTH Jews and Arabs living INSIDE Israel who protest against Israel's policies and are willing to continuously suffer under Israeli soldier's tear gas attacks yet they continue to protest about the siege and confiscation of land and property to build walls and expand settlements. And so while Israel has the right to self-defense, I find it troubling to sympathize with the country in general since at the same time, they have no respect for Palestinian land and property in the West Bank. They would rather kick a Palestinian family out then to ask some settlers to move elsewhere in Israel because there is no space for expansion.

I don't think anyone want u to sympathize with Israel,
What is needed is objective analysis of the situation on a case by case basis,
In case of the grabbing of land etc.. Israel bad
In case of the of the incident discussed in this thread the "peace activists" were to blame and the international community is wrong both in legal and moral terms

I am glad you have realized to analyse both good and bad. I have read that Hamas has less corruption within its party then other Palestinian parties and they actually spend a lot of money on social services aside from spending money on rockets. That is why they won the elections in 2006. Other Palestinian parties fail to provide for its citizens, although Hamas may not be doing a good job either because of the siege. I have to say that the international community has been hiding the good side of Hamas.

Hamas HAD been providing for their citizens. Then they got elected to power, and developed the military capability to keep other parties in check. They no longer need the help of the common citizen, so they no longer provide for them.

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skafather84
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01 Jun 2010, 7:46 pm

ASPowerations wrote:

jc6chan wrote:

nara44 wrote:

jc6chan wrote:

Wasn't it after Hamas had been elected to power that Israel started pressing down really hard in isolating the strip and essentially gave Abbas control of the West Bank?

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nara44
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01 Jun 2010, 8:05 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Wasn't it after Hamas had been elected to power that Israel started pressing down really hard in isolating the strip and essentially gave Abbas control of the West Bank?

Sure,i don't know about the WB,the PLO has the self control there since the Oslo agreement many years ago,but Israel indeed made things worth for the strip since Hamas took control there(murdering lot's of Abbas men in the process ) because Hamas made things worse for the Israel ,
That's life u know, u hurt people they try to stop you ,and this rule applies even for the Palestinian.
Before the Hamas decided to attack Israel the border between Gaza and Israel was open People and goods were streaming freely to both sides but for some strange reason no one seems to remember this simple fact,nor do any one remember that Israel left the strip with no condition in order to let the Palestinians a a chance at building their own state.

nara44
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01 Jun 2010, 8:15 pm

ASPowerations wrote:

jc6chan wrote:

nara44 wrote:

jc6chan wrote:

Hamas is as corrupt as the PLO, if not more,keeping the population depending on welfare doesn't really help for a development of the country but make it totally dependent on the ruling forces,
Establishing a transparent and fair system of law and order that would allow commerce and education to support creativity is not in the Hamas interest as they are basically a fundamentalist regime
Abbas men were making a lot of progress in those area at the last few ears and consequently life at the WB are totally different from the life in Gaza.
Actually , getting the blockade removed is quite simple,Abbas could achieve that in no time if Hamas would let him.

psychohist
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01 Jun 2010, 9:16 pm

nara44 wrote:

Hamas is as corrupt as the PLO, if not more,keeping the population depending on welfare doesn't really help for a development of the country but make it totally dependent on the ruling forces,

What else are they going to do with Israel preventing commerce through their blockade? Lift the blockade, and Gaza could supplant Beirut as a favorite Arab vacation spot.

sefer
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01 Jun 2010, 9:31 pm

Yeah it also would supplant Iran's favourite place to send weapons to.

Tim_Tex
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01 Jun 2010, 9:56 pm

Both groups need to convert to Christianity.

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skafather84
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01 Jun 2010, 10:02 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

Both groups need to convert to Christianity.

Obviously.

nara44
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01 Jun 2010, 10:14 pm

psychohist wrote:

nara44 wrote:

Hamas is as corrupt as the PLO, if not more,keeping the population depending on welfare doesn't really help for a development of the country but make it totally dependent on the ruling forces,

What else are they going to do with Israel preventing commerce through their blockade? Lift the blockade, and Gaza could supplant Beirut as a favorite Arab vacation spot.

Gaza wasn't always under blockade, It had many chances in the past to take the direction u suggested but chose otherwise,in the grownups world choices have consequences and the choice is very clear to the party involved,no violence = no blockade and a chance to build a prosperous state,.
I don't see many countries that supplies their their enemies,
Israel does just that on a daily basis and still is one of the most hated states in the world.

nara44
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01 Jun 2010, 10:18 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

Both groups need to convert to Christianity.

Most Israelis are secular and don't practice any religion so there really nothing to convert them from
Both groups should rid themselves of their governments and convert the political system to anarchy

jc6chan
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02 Jun 2010, 6:50 am

nara44 wrote:

ASPowerations wrote:

jc6chan wrote:

nara44 wrote:

jc6chan wrote:

The blockade prevents Hamas from providing for the population.

sefer
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02 Jun 2010, 7:10 am

New video released: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6sAEYpHF24

Shows the activists throw a stun grenade at the navy boat, and waiting with bats and chains.

psychohist
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02 Jun 2010, 1:05 pm

nara44 wrote:

Gaza wasn't always under blockade

Gaza has been under blockade since Hamas came to power.

During the first 6 month cease fire, Hamas put a stop to the rocket attacks. Israel didn't lift the blockade. It's clear that cooperation gets the palestinians nowhere.

psychohist
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02 Jun 2010, 1:08 pm

Two excellent suggestions from Haaretz columnists:

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... t-1.293671

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... n-1.293670

sartresue
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02 Jun 2010, 6:10 pm

psychohist wrote:

Two excellent suggestions from Haaretz columnists:

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... t-1.293671

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... n-1.293670

The Land topic

The second article, about 'another option', is worth a talk. There is hope in that message.

Conversion factoid topic
Time_Tex Wrote:

Quote:

Both groups need to convert to Christianity.

Oh, Tim

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Wombat
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02 Jun 2010, 6:31 pm

Is Gaza part of Israel or is it a separate country?

If it is part of Israel then they should give them food and aid.

If it is a separate country then why can they bomb them and blockade them without declaring war?

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