The Truth About Christmas

Page 5 of 6 [ 81 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

21 Dec 2010, 6:08 pm

ruveyn wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:

... there isn't a religion or a religious festival on earth that isn't syncretic.

Are you sure that is true of the Sabbaths and Feasts of Torah?

ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:

I have never heard that about them.

Two of the three major Jewish festivals and one minor festival is related to the harvest time in the land of Cana'an.

Passover is a springtime festival, related to the vernal equinox.

Ruveyn has mentioned some of their objectives, but I am fairly sure no Sabbath or Scriptural Feast is in sync with anything related to any sectarian religion.

_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================

kxmode
Supporting Member

Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,613
Location: In your neighborhood, knocking on your door. :)

21 Dec 2010, 6:10 pm

leejosepho wrote:

91 wrote:

Am I really to conclude that the fact that December 25th is not the day of Jesus's birth, that he was never born, preached, executed or resurrected from the dead?

Evidently that is what my mother thought I had done when I told her December 25th was not the day! She immediately jumped up and ran from my house screaming and crying something about whatever-it-was related to me.

For most of the Christians I have ever known, their overall belief system is but a very shaky "house of cards" easily crumbled by just one or two facts.

And yet the foundation of their faith could be strengthened and reinforced by a simple, personal Bible study. It is not the fault of people that Christendom is teaching them false, pagan doctrines. But it is people's personal responsibility to "[take] in [accurate] knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." Why? "This means everlasting life." as John 17:3 states. As knowledge opens up opportunities in this world so to does taking in accurate knowledge of scriptures open up opportunities for a happy future.

Talk to any Witness. Ask them your questions. They would be happy to answer them. Then you decide whether you want to put faith in the information you find from the Bible or not.

_________________
A Proud Witness of Jehovah God (JW.org)
Revelation 21:4 "And [God] will wipe out every tear from their eyes,
and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.
The former things have passed away."

Last edited by kxmode on 21 Dec 2010, 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

21 Dec 2010, 6:14 pm

kxmode wrote:

Talk to any Witness. Ask them your questions. They would be happy to answer them. Then you decide whether you want to put faith in the information you find from the Bible or not.

I would word that a bit differently to be certain one's faith was quite clearly and correctly placed completely apart from sectarian religion, yet we nevertheless and definitely agree as to what you are saying there.

_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================

AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

21 Dec 2010, 9:04 pm

kxmode wrote:

As knowledge opens up opportunities in this world so to does taking in accurate knowledge of scriptures open up opportunities for a happy future.

Indeed? Is that why mental illness runs so rampant among Witnesses?

kxmode wrote:

Talk to any Witness. Ask them your questions. They would be happy to answer them.

I've tried that before. They don't seem to be willing to talk to me much.

But that won't stop me from trying. Here's one for you: If the soul is the body, why does Jesus make a distinction between the body and the soul in Matthew 10:28?

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

21 Dec 2010, 9:23 pm

kxmode wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

91 wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

December 25th was chosen because they wanted to steal a pagan holiday (the winter solstice). Much of christianity's holidays are actually pagan holidays and based more in astrology than in christian lure.

That is a pretty sweeping statement. Did you read the exchange that occurred on this subject on page 2?

It's also a pretty true statement. Easter, Christmas, All Saints Day, Valentine's Day...even the placement of New Year's Day is pagan in origin.

If someone knows the origins about Christmas, Easter, New Years and so forth then its their choice whether or not they want to participate. As Morpheus said, "You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe." It all comes down to choice. No one is going to force you to choose, but you have free will and intellect to help you.

I guess you can believe whatever you want but it's anthropologically dishonest. While specific dates were cemented later under Christian auspices, these time periods were always celebrated by various societies for much more generalized reasons. The Christmas time actually represented a death and rebirth and the coming spring...it was the time that the longest night came and went and the burgeoning spring and life was just around the corner. Predictably enough, Jesus' story also embodies this ideal of death and life to come.

_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson

Master_Pedant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,903

21 Dec 2010, 9:34 pm

aspi-rant wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2M8NWjcBQo[/youtube]

see the entire zeitgeist movie to connect more curious dots of history...

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

The Zeigeist is an ahistorical piece of crap.

_________________
http://www.voterocky.org/

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

21 Dec 2010, 9:49 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

aspi-rant wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2M8NWjcBQo[/youtube]

see the entire zeitgeist movie to connect more curious dots of history...

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

The Zeigeist is an ahistorical piece of crap.

The Zeitgeist movie is more based off of mondegreens than based off of actual anthropological study or linguistic study.

waltur
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 May 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 924
Location: california

23 Dec 2010, 11:50 pm

AngelRho wrote:

kxmode wrote:

As knowledge opens up opportunities in this world so to does taking in accurate knowledge of scriptures open up opportunities for a happy future.

Indeed? Is that why mental illness runs so rampant among Witnesses?

mental illness runs rampant among Witnesses?

i didn't think they were much crazier than most other creationists. they certainly seem less "mentally ill" around christmas time than most christians.

(click to enlarge)

i'm sure they're soooooooo much more prone to "mental illness" than your sect. :roll:

_________________
Waltur the Walrus Slayer,
Militant Asantist.
"BLASPHEMER!! !! !! !!" (according to AngelRho)

Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 81
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

24 Dec 2010, 12:35 am

What did Mr Schulz ever do to you?

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

24 Dec 2010, 1:01 am

leejosepho wrote:

Ruveyn has mentioned some of their objectives, but I am fairly sure no Sabbath or Scriptural Feast is in sync with anything related to any sectarian religion.

All religions are sectarian.

It would have been better if mankind did not need to cook up religions to alleviate its fear of death.

ruveyn

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 99
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

24 Dec 2010, 1:09 am

ruveyn wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

Ruveyn has mentioned some of their objectives, but I am fairly sure no Sabbath or Scriptural Feast is in sync with anything related to any sectarian religion.

All religions are sectarian.

It would have been better if mankind did not need to cook up religions to alleviate its fear of death.

ruveyn

Fear is a great motivator. See how well it conditions the US public to the loss of civil rights and submission to sexual groping. A wonderful technique for pushing scams.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

24 Dec 2010, 1:10 am

Sand wrote:

Fear is a great motivator. See how well it conditions the US public to the loss of civil rights and submission to sexual groping. A wonderful technique for pushing scams.

So is politics.

ruveyn

Robdemanc
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 May 2010
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,872
Location: England

26 Dec 2010, 7:16 am

I read that the three kings are actually the three stars of Orions belt. Around the winter solstice these stars align themselves with the star Sirius (which is the brightest star in the sky and lies in the east). If you trace the alignment through the 3 kings and through sirius to the horizon it shows the position that the sun will rise. The ancients are said to have followed the 3 kings through the bright star in the east to locate the position the sun (their saviour) would rise after the winter solstice.

AspergianSuperstar
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 43

14 Jan 2011, 4:19 pm

Interesting point Robdemanc I couldn't verify that - if you could post the source or PM me it I would be glad to have a look.

The constellation of Kesil in the bible, refers to the Orions belt but I don't think it is used in this context

you might find this interesting http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... 9&letter=C Jewish encyclopaediaAccessed on the 14th of January 2011

"Orion is undoubtedly designated by the Hebrew "Kesil" ("Fool"; see below) in Job ix. 9, xxxviii. 31; Amos v. 8; Isa. xiii. 10. Of the ancient versions, the LXX. has "Orion" in Job and Isaiah, while Targum and Peshiṭta render by "Giant." In this there is a reminiscence of an ancient, perhaps pre-Semitic, myth—also current in variants among the Greeks—concerning a giant bound to the sky, whom the Hebrews, with characteristic reflection upon his presumption to resist and defy heavenly power, labeled "Fool." Nimrod was associated with this "Fool" by later folk-lore. The question in Job about loosening the bands (xxxviii. 31) has reference to this, and not, as Dillmann contends (commentary, ad loc.), to the rise and fall of the stars according as the "rope with which they are drawn" is tightened or slacked.

The Jewish medieval commentators hold the "Kesil" to have been either the Arabic "Suhail" (= Canopus) or Sirius. On the plural, in Isa. xiii. 10, see Jensen, l.c. (note also his suggestion that "Kesil" is a generic name for "comet")."

What is interesting is that Jehovah's witnesses at one point openly celebrated Christmas and they went all out in celebrating it in the headquarters that they call Bethel [literally House [Beth] of God [El, or Elohim]

There is a talk called "the last christmas at Bethel" which tells about the story of why they do not celebrate christmas. Realizing that they once did but through accurate knowledge stopped really shows their sincerity in following the bible and rejecting customs based on the principles outlined therein.

Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

14 Jan 2011, 6:33 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Vexcalibur wrote:

By the way, what evidence is there Jesus' birthday was not on December 25th? The bible, as always fails to give any historical account of the facts, so Jesus' birthday could have been ANY date INCLUDING December 25th (That's assuming Jesus was actually ever born).

The context of the shepherds indicates that it'd be more around summer...they'd be freezing if it was in winter.

December 25th was chosen because they wanted to steal a pagan holiday (the winter solstice). Much of christianity's holidays are actually pagan holidays and based more in astrology than in christian lure.

There's no way to know if the shepherds' visit happened immediately after Jesus was born and not some months later.

_________________
.

Robdemanc
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 May 2010
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,872
Location: England

14 Jan 2011, 8:32 pm

AspergianSuperstar wrote:

You can look here for info about sirius, orion and ancient myths.

http://www.robertbauval.co.uk/articles/ ... beth3.html

I also saw a video on youtube which talks about it called The Truth about Religion

Page 5 of 6 [ 81 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next

Jump to:

The Truth About Christmas Post Reply New Topic

The Truth About Christmas