How can someone with Aspergers be left-wing?
psychohist wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
Psychohist, you do know that the "Go-Go '80s" culture of financing stuff with credit rather than savings is the main reason the world's in this crisis, right?
I know that credit was around long before the 1980s, and also that private credit goes hand in hand with savings, since it's savings that are lent out in the form of credit. If you're talking about government deficits, they were also around long before the 1980s.
I also know that neither of the two main reasons the world is in crisis has anything to do wth the 1980s. The first of those reasons, the housing bubble that was the proximate cause of the 2008 crash, is due to the 1995 amendments to the community reinvestment act that forced the creating of the subprime mortgage market. The second is the response to the initial crash, which involved piecemeal government intervention that undermined the market's confidence in a stable regulatory regime.
If you thought the 1980s had anything to do with this, you might need to educate yourself more on these issues. You could start with this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4
I don't have time to watch the video now, but I'll get around to it. It seems largely like sensationalist crap - the fast paced music and incessant associations don't help - and I find it quite funny that you're lecturing me on economic history with such confidence, which seems more indicative of an ignorance that preceives itself as knowledged rather than genuine knowledge.
Anyways, here's a video that's not sensationalist crap (from the Khan Academy). You pretty much forget why people were borrowing money against their homes and relying more heavily on credit - household savings were in decline.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZRkERfzzn4[/youtube]
To parrot your condescending advice,
GO EDUCATE YOURSELF ON PERSONAL DEBT!! !
psychohist wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
Psychohist, you do know that the "Go-Go '80s" culture of financing stuff with credit rather than savings is the main reason the world's in this crisis, right?
I know that credit was around long before the 1980s, and also that private credit goes hand in hand with savings, since it's savings that are lent out in the form of credit. If you're talking about government deficits, they were also around long before the 1980s.
Credit is a necessary factor in every capitalist economy. It is the only way capital investment in new industries and new technologies can happen. If money sits idle in people's mattresses and cookie jars the economy will stagnate. Money has to be either spent for end user consumption or lent out to finance new industries, new technologies, to replace worn assets and to invest in human capital (this means education and skill enhancement). Without credit the best one can hope for is a stagnating economy working at subsistence level.
ruveyn
marshall wrote:
psychohist wrote:
NeantHumain wrote:
To me, the society the Tea Party envisions is at least as much a change as the one the Left imagines. A country "taken back" to a 1950s-style culture with everyone attending church every week and pretending the poor did not exist is an unwelcome change and definitely one I would actively oppose. The Left proposes a more robust, adaptable, tolerant, free, and open society, which is much more appealing to me. For example, I am an atheist with no taste for god talk.
The Tea Party wants a culture like the 1920s or 1980s, not the 1950s. If anything, it's ruveyn's closet totalitarian liberals that keep citing the 1950s as good times.
If liberals are closet totalitarians, then Tea Partiers are closet social darwinists who would like to have autistic people die on the streets.
Nah, they just think that such people should have to work in the service of "god".
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
psychohist wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Nah, they just think that such people should have to work in the service of "god".
Actually the Tea Party couldn't care less about "god". They just want government to be smaller, which is a position pretty independent of religion.
The thing is that they assume that all the government services are taken up by charitable institutions with a focus on the religious institutions. It removes government by placing people on dependency of the church. Check out what Ron Paul has to say about it sometime, his position is pretty much what's assumed: that religion will assume the role of welfare provider.
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
Master_Pedant wrote:
You pretty much forget why people were borrowing money against their homes and relying more heavily on credit - household savings were in decline.
Actually, far from forgetting about it, I've provided the explanation for it. People were borrowing against their homes because the 1995 amendments to the Community Reinvestment Act forced banks to make home loans to people unlikely to be able to repay them, which in turn inflated housing prices above realistically sustainable values. People thought those prices were sustainable, and borrowed against their homes on the mistaken belief that the largest component of their savings - the value of their home - had permanently and substantially increased.
Of course, when the folks who got mortgages without being able to repay them started failing to repay them, the bubble started bursting, squeezing the people who could pay their mortgages but found the values of their houses declining to the point where they were underwater. Meanwhile, many of the people who couldn't repay their mortgages have been getting a free ride, in many cases living in foreclosed properties for free for a couple of years now.
That still has nothing to do with the 1980s. In the 1980s, you still typically had to find a 20% down payment, unless you were a veteran and had VA insurance or something similar to act as a substitute. It was only after the CRA amendments in 1995 and the support of mortgage securitization through quasigovernmental agencies that the housing bubble and overmortgaging started to happen.
A return to the 1980s situation, where you saved a down payment and paid a market rate on mortgages, is what makes sense.
skafather84 wrote:
The thing is that they assume that all the government services are taken up by charitable institutions with a focus on the religious institutions.
They assume no such thing. As ruveyn pointed out in another thread, certain necessary services, such as roads and sewers, are best provided by government. The Tea Party wants smaller government, not no government.
Quote:
It removes government by placing people on dependency of the church. Check out what Ron Paul has to say about it sometime, his position is pretty much what's assumed: that religion will assume the role of welfare provider.
First off, I reject the idea that only the religious are charitable.
With respect to the Tea Party, they do not advocate elimination of all welfare programs. They do advocate rollbacks of things like the recent Obamacare expansions to medicaid, but the majority of proposed cuts have nothing to do with welfare, being in areas like rollbacks of Bush's medicare expansions and rolling back Obama's Afghanistan surge. They also oppose any further bailouts, though I suppose that could be cast as opposing "corporate welfare".
Individual candidates supported by various Tea Party groups may have additional views of their own, of course, and they may not agree in every respect. What they agree on is smaller government, and that's what gets Tea Party endorsement.
Yupa wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
That is a sticky situation, one example though is drunk drivers as to why there are laws on the books. Also a lot of the drugs that people advocate legalizing does impair a person and can be a danger to other people. That's why it's illegal (or supposed to be) for people to use steroids without a prescription it can cause something known as roid rage (as well as Depression).
Ecstasy, Spice, Marijuana and Hashish cause roid rage and depression? Since when?
I can see keeping hallucinogens and methamphetamines illegal, but that's about the extent of it.
While Ecstasy may have some good effects it can also cause brain damage. It also has some pretty bad side effects...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
Marijuana's side effects include impairment of short-term memory and working memory...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana
Also any drug that is a stimulent can be extremely addictive as well.
Yupa wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
"praise songs" toward Obama
The left would have as much problem with "praise songs" towards any politician as the right. The last politician I remember being taught to "praise" in school was George Washington when I learned about him in elementary school. That said, I have never heard of any public school doing this "praise song" thing you're speaking of.
That isn't even remotely equivalent, because George Washington has been dead for over 200 years. Obama was running to be President and then is currently President of this country. The situation with George Washington is celebrating what he did for this country. The incident with Obama is the kind of propaganda you saw in Germany during the 1930s.
Yupa wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
To which I have the response: Do you think it is okay to let people fly airplanes into buildings to try to kill civilians and not do something about it?
To which I have the response: did Iraq attack the twin towers?
The intel we had at the time was that Saddam had WMDs still and wasn't complying with the UN resolutions. Our invasion of Iraq exposed a huge scandal in which countries like France were involved. Look up "Oil for Food" Scandal.
Furthermore, I think it is good riddence to rid the world of a monster that tortured his own people (including children). It would have been a lot nicer if we could have just dropped a single smart bomb and took out Saddam (he did try to assassinate a former President afterall).
In all honesty Saddam's mistake was thinking George W. Bush was all talk, seriously Bush is from Texas.
Yupa wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Actually, and I don't mean to be offensive, Aspies tend to have a hard time reading people and can often be gullable. Because we tend to see things in black and white and are actually very compassionate we tend to end up being duped by people that are skilled at not telling the truth.
I think you can speak for yourself on that one.
For example, a gullible person might believe that two politically distant and unrelated nations have enough in common for a third party to declare war on both based on the actions of a person stationed in one of those two countries. A gullible person might also believe that schools are trying to push a certain political agenda with little evidence to back it up.
It's also generally accepted that most politicans on both sides are pretty much trying to play to as broad a group as they can, which leads to a lot of political flip-flopping and general lack of honesty. However, that doesn't mean things still can't get done. Hardly means those politicians are any kind of object of reverence, but in the last election I voted in I did make a point of voting for the lesser of two evils.
Uh altering the Declaration of Independence so that it politically correct isn't a cause for concern? Teaching children to sing praise songs, praising an Elected Official currently in office isn't a cause for concern?
psychohist wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
You pretty much forget why people were borrowing money against their homes and relying more heavily on credit - household savings were in decline.
Actually, far from forgetting about it, I've provided the explanation for it. People were borrowing against their homes because the 1995 amendments to the Community Reinvestment Act forced banks to make home loans to people unlikely to be able to repay them, which in turn inflated housing prices above realistically sustainable values. People thought those prices were sustainable, and borrowed against their homes on the mistaken belief that the largest component of their savings - the value of their home - had permanently and substantially increased.
Of course, when the folks who got mortgages without being able to repay them started failing to repay them, the bubble started bursting, squeezing the people who could pay their mortgages but found the values of their houses declining to the point where they were underwater. Meanwhile, many of the people who couldn't repay their mortgages have been getting a free ride, in many cases living in foreclosed properties for free for a couple of years now.
That still has nothing to do with the 1980s. In the 1980s, you still typically had to find a 20% down payment, unless you were a veteran and had VA insurance or something similar to act as a substitute. It was only after the CRA amendments in 1995 and the support of mortgage securitization through quasigovernmental agencies that the housing bubble and overmortgaging started to happen.
A return to the 1980s situation, where you saved a down payment and paid a market rate on mortgages, is what makes sense.
You're way, way off on your interpretation of the housing crisis. Banks were never forced to make loans and the overwhelming majority of subprime loans were adjustable rate loans (ARM's) which the government does not insure. Most of these loans were made between about 2002 and 2007. It was when we started seeing these rates suddenly adjust upward that people stopped being able to afford them. Second to these subprime loans were home equity loans made during approximately the same time period. Everyone wanted to "increase their home's value" by getting a fancy new kitchen. They treated their homes like piggy banks. Unfortunately, they were working with false equity.
As you'll recall, the states hardest hit were the ones with very high housing costs. It wasn't the first time buyer with the modest budget that caused the collapse, it was the McMansions popping up in every neighborhood that the middle class never truly could afford.
And no one lives for free in a foreclosed home. Once the sherriff's sale takes place - they're out. It does happen that sometimes while a homeowner is in pre-forclosure, they are able to avoid paying the mortgage, but that's either because they simply can't, or because the bank told them to do so. In order to be considered for a short sale or a deed-in-lieu, the homeowner must be behind in their payments. The pre-foreclosure process usually takes about 3-6 months, not years, although in some states it does take longer.
Inuyasha wrote:
"praise songs"... altering the declaration of independence
You never pointed out the particular incident with examples of anyone being taught "praise songs" (much less any government-sanctioned incident that even remotely compares to Nazi Germany... Godwin's law much?) nor are you citing any specific examples on how the declaration of independence is being altered.
number5 wrote:
You're way, way off on your interpretation of the housing crisis. Banks were never forced to make loans and the overwhelming majority of subprime loans were adjustable rate loans (ARM's) which the government does not insure. Most of these loans were made between about 2002 and 2007. It was when we started seeing these rates suddenly adjust upward that people stopped being able to afford them. Second to these subprime loans were home equity loans made during approximately the same time period. Everyone wanted to "increase their home's value" by getting a fancy new kitchen. They treated their homes like piggy banks. Unfortunately, they were working with false equity.
Look up Community Reinvestiment Act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act
That was what "encouraged" banks to make bad loans.
number5 wrote:
As you'll recall, the states hardest hit were the ones with very high housing costs. It wasn't the first time buyer with the modest budget that caused the collapse, it was the McMansions popping up in every neighborhood that the middle class never truly could afford.
Because home values were skyrocketing due to an artificial force on the market...
number5 wrote:
And no one lives for free in a foreclosed home. Once the sherriff's sale takes place - they're out. It does happen that sometimes while a homeowner is in pre-forclosure, they are able to avoid paying the mortgage, but that's either because they simply can't, or because the bank told them to do so. In order to be considered for a short sale or a deed-in-lieu, the homeowner must be behind in their payments. The pre-foreclosure process usually takes about 3-6 months, not years, although in some states it does take longer.
And I feel bad for the people whom could originally afford their homes but then lost their jobs due to ponzy scheme falling apart.
number5 wrote:
And no one lives for free in a foreclosed home. Once the sherriff's sale takes place - they're out. It does happen that sometimes while a homeowner is in pre-forclosure, they are able to avoid paying the mortgage, but that's either because they simply can't, or because the bank told them to do so.
Sorry, I should have said "defaulted" rather than "foreclosed" homes. But yes, some people do live in them for years:
WSJ wrote:
Yolande Walker, who lived for two and a half years in her three-bedroom home in the Las Vegas suburb of Henderson, Nev., after defaulting on her $1,700-a-month mortgage payments in 2008, said the free housing helped her make ends meet after she lost her job as a commercial-loan processor. "I was able to make my car payment and keep from losing my car, and I was able to pay the utilities," said the 50-year-old Ms. Walker, who finally lost the home to foreclosure last month. She is still looking for work, and says her unemployment benefits are scheduled to run out in December.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... Highlights
No mortgage payments and 99 weeks of unemployment insurance to cover her other costs. No wonder she stayed unemployed instead of finding a new job. I bet she finds one right quick now that she actually needs one.
psychohist wrote:
No mortgage payments and 99 weeks of unemployment insurance to cover her other costs. No wonder she stayed unemployed instead of finding a new job. I bet she finds one right quick now that she actually needs one.
I don't think your cynicism is justified in this case.
Las Vegas has had a steady rise in unemployment since the recession hit - to its current level of 15%. Qualified school teachers who were financial incentives to move to the area 5 years ago now find themselves competing with unskilled workers for jobs that no longer pay for their homes.
adifferentname wrote:
psychohist wrote:
No mortgage payments and 99 weeks of unemployment insurance to cover her other costs. No wonder she stayed unemployed instead of finding a new job. I bet she finds one right quick now that she actually needs one.
I don't think your cynicism is justified in this case.
Las Vegas has had a steady rise in unemployment since the recession hit - to its current level of 15%. Qualified school teachers who were financial incentives to move to the area 5 years ago now find themselves competing with unskilled workers for jobs that no longer pay for their homes.
Problem is in some cases you're penalized for finding a job that pays at minimum wage and one can't support their family on minimum wage. And you get a lot more money from unemployment.
Inuyasha wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
psychohist wrote:
No mortgage payments and 99 weeks of unemployment insurance to cover her other costs. No wonder she stayed unemployed instead of finding a new job. I bet she finds one right quick now that she actually needs one.
I don't think your cynicism is justified in this case.
Las Vegas has had a steady rise in unemployment since the recession hit - to its current level of 15%. Qualified school teachers who were financial incentives to move to the area 5 years ago now find themselves competing with unskilled workers for jobs that no longer pay for their homes.
Problem is in some cases you're penalized for finding a job that pays at minimum wage and one can't support their family on minimum wage. And you get a lot more money from unemployment.
Unemployment pays at most, 405/week (at least in NY state) and it is based on 50% your prior wage, up to that 405 max. Taxes are not deducted and it does not come with any benefits. Hardly a winfall.
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