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Does the government own your vagina?

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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10 Apr 2011, 10:33 pm

psychohist wrote:
Why does the topic title say "vagina" rather than "uterus"? I hadn't heard that anyone waited until the fetus/child was in the vagina to decide on an abortion.


That made me giggle.


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skafather84
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10 Apr 2011, 10:33 pm

psychohist wrote:
Why does the topic title say "vagina" rather than "uterus"? I hadn't heard that anyone waited until the fetus/child was in the vagina to decide on an abortion.


A slightly sloppy wording because I thought vagina was more colorful for my absurd proposition rather than just uterus; which, to me, is a more and more worn out word in the discussion to the point of being desensitized.


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10 Apr 2011, 10:34 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
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Probably, but there is black market murder and slavery too.

That's the exact problem with turning arbitrary morality into laws. Make abortion illegal. Make drugs illegal. Make junk food illegal. You are just going to handle a monopoly to criminals. And the criminals will use the money they earn from this monopoly to invest in other things and expand their markets. That means more murder and slavery.
Difference is, junk food and drugs are victimless crimes and abortion is not from the perspective of a pro-lifer.

Vexcalibur wrote:
Quote:
They are both the parents. Why is the responsibility not split equally?
One has to carry the child, be a healthy host, go through the risk of birth and then breast feed it. Nature itself does not want to split the responsibility equally.
The responsibility both parents have towards the baby pertains to a lot more than just the hardship of pregnancy.

Vexcalibur wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
They don't need to keep track of every pregnancy. Just don't allow doctors to legally do it unless medically necessary; prosecute the ones that do and take their medical license away. It would decrease for sure. Would there be black market abortions? Probably, but there is black market murder and slavery too.
Exactly.
What about mothers trying to intentionally cause a miscarriage? They may not get to do it. But attempt of murder is a crime!

At the very least, jail potential mothers to prevent this.
Jail potential mothers? If I had a penny for every straw man you put up. This s**t is getting old.

And yes intentionally causing a miscarriage would count as attempted murder. What's your point?

@psychohist: Yeah that's true lol.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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10 Apr 2011, 10:34 pm

skafather84 wrote:
psychohist wrote:
Why does the topic title say "vagina" rather than "uterus"? I hadn't heard that anyone waited until the fetus/child was in the vagina to decide on an abortion.


A slightly sloppy wording because I thought vagina was more colorful for my absurd proposition rather than just uterus; which, to me, is a more and more worn out word in the discussion to the point of being desensitized.


While this may be true, I think vagina would have worked better for a debate on birth control and Planned Parenthood.


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10 Apr 2011, 10:35 pm

skafather84 wrote:
psychohist wrote:
Why does the topic title say "vagina" rather than "uterus"? I hadn't heard that anyone waited until the fetus/child was in the vagina to decide on an abortion.


A slightly sloppy wording because I thought vagina was more colorful for my absurd proposition rather than just uterus; which, to me, is a more and more worn out word in the discussion to the point of being desensitized.


I think its both apt & hilarious


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10 Apr 2011, 10:35 pm

Any of the never-will-be-pregnant-but-full-of-opinions men posting here have a child?
Ever been to an ultrasound? Ever changed a diaper? Any intimate knowledge of parenthood whatsoever?
Just curious.



skafather84
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10 Apr 2011, 10:37 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Any of the never-will-be-pregnant-but-full-of-opinions men posting here have a child?
Ever been to an ultrasound? Ever changed a diaper? Any intimate knowledge of parenthood whatsoever?
Just curious.


What does that have to do with the topic at hand? This is about the people who don't choose parenthood or maybe choose to defer on it until later.


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10 Apr 2011, 10:38 pm

Quote:
Ever been to an ultrasound?

Yes, but of my heart, once a year

Quote:
Ever changed a diaper?

My girlfriend and I sometimes babysit for our two new-parent friends so I have a few times. Fun stuff! :lol:

Quote:
Any intimate knowledge of parenthood whatsoever?

Don't f**k up your kids? :lol:


Quote:
never-will-be-pregnant


I just gave birth to a smelly brown 'baby'- does that count?


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cave_canem
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10 Apr 2011, 10:39 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Quote:
Probably, but there is black market murder and slavery too.

That's the exact problem with turning arbitrary morality into laws. Make abortion illegal. Make drugs illegal. Make junk food illegal. You are just going to handle a monopoly to criminals. And the criminals will use the money they earn from this monopoly to invest in other things and expand their markets. That means more murder and slavery.
Difference is, junk food and drugs are victimless crimes and abortion is not from the perspective of a pro-lifer.


That may be because many pro-lifers simply do not care as much about the "life" of a human once that human has been born.



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10 Apr 2011, 10:41 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Any of the never-will-be-pregnant-but-full-of-opinions men posting here have a child?
Ever been to an ultrasound? Ever changed a diaper? Any intimate knowledge of parenthood whatsoever?
Just curious.


Attacking men for having an opinion on babies that belong to them too is pointless.


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10 Apr 2011, 10:42 pm

phil777 wrote:
I personnally find it amusing how on this forum, in this thread, it is mostly males discussing about female's rights.

Shouldn't the discussion be "mostly" be left to the ladies? I mean, it does concern THEM more than it concerns us. <.< We're not the ones having to go through pregnancy and emotionnal attachment (if there is any) to the lifeform they're carrying during that time


I was kind of snickering about the gender issue here. As a lady, ..... ok a female, I have to say there is a part of me that's very on the fence in this issue. I think it's not exactly right to give women all the say on how to deal with a pregnancy. Yes, Her body.... and I respect that.... but there is part of me that thinks that half of that DNA isn't hers... She can decided to abort and the man has no say. She can decide to keep the pregnancy, and the man has no say. I think that if a man is against abortion or really wants the child, some consideration should be given to that. If the man doesn't want a child, and he voices that opinion, I don't think it's right to slap him with child support later down the road, especially if abortion would have been his preference.

I know that this challenges all sorts of lines and giving consideration to both sides would cause all sorts of drama, but I think the current standard leaves men at a real disadvantage. Your choice ends on deciding where to stick your penis, regardless of safeguards that could very well fail. After that, every choice is/could be made for you. There's no right in that.



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10 Apr 2011, 10:45 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
What about mothers trying to intentionally cause a miscarriage? They may not get to do it. But attempt of murder is a crime!

A Southern state (I believe it was either Georgia or Alabama, but I could be mistaken) recently attempted to institute such a law, where the police would have to investigate all miscarriages to ascertain that they were not intentional.


I thought it was Mississippi?

Georgia, according to Google.


Ah, I guess it just sounds like a Mississippi kind of thing to do.


The sad part is, I also thought that was Mississippi.


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10 Apr 2011, 10:47 pm

BurntOutMom wrote:
phil777 wrote:
I personnally find it amusing how on this forum, in this thread, it is mostly males discussing about female's rights.

Shouldn't the discussion be "mostly" be left to the ladies? I mean, it does concern THEM more than it concerns us. <.< We're not the ones having to go through pregnancy and emotionnal attachment (if there is any) to the lifeform they're carrying during that time


I was kind of snickering about the gender issue here. As a lady, ..... ok a female, I have to say there is a part of me that's very on the fence in this issue. I think it's not exactly right to give women all the say on how to deal with a pregnancy. Yes, Her body.... and I respect that.... but there is part of me that thinks that half of that DNA isn't hers... She can decided to abort and the man has no say. She can decide to keep the pregnancy, and the man has no say. I think that if a man is against abortion or really wants the child, some consideration should be given to that. If the man doesn't want a child, and he voices that opinion, I don't think it's right to slap him with child support later down the road, especially if abortion would have been his preference.

I know that this challenges all sorts of lines and giving consideration to both sides would cause all sorts of drama, but I think the current standard leaves men at a real disadvantage. Your choice ends on deciding where to stick your penis, regardless of safeguards that could very well fail. After that, every choice is/could be made for you. There's no right in that.


While there are certainly complications that can arise with regards to interactions (for instance, I do believe an abortion could be a legit reason for a divorce), my bottom line is that I think it's better for the freedom to be there than not. I see more problems with having less freedom there.


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10 Apr 2011, 10:48 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Any of the never-will-be-pregnant-but-full-of-opinions men posting here have a child?
Ever been to an ultrasound? Ever changed a diaper? Any intimate knowledge of parenthood whatsoever?
Just curious.
What makes you think men don't ever change diapers?


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10 Apr 2011, 10:50 pm

skafather84 wrote:
BurntOutMom wrote:
phil777 wrote:
I personnally find it amusing how on this forum, in this thread, it is mostly males discussing about female's rights.

Shouldn't the discussion be "mostly" be left to the ladies? I mean, it does concern THEM more than it concerns us. <.< We're not the ones having to go through pregnancy and emotionnal attachment (if there is any) to the lifeform they're carrying during that time


I was kind of snickering about the gender issue here. As a lady, ..... ok a female, I have to say there is a part of me that's very on the fence in this issue. I think it's not exactly right to give women all the say on how to deal with a pregnancy. Yes, Her body.... and I respect that.... but there is part of me that thinks that half of that DNA isn't hers... She can decided to abort and the man has no say. She can decide to keep the pregnancy, and the man has no say. I think that if a man is against abortion or really wants the child, some consideration should be given to that. If the man doesn't want a child, and he voices that opinion, I don't think it's right to slap him with child support later down the road, especially if abortion would have been his preference.

I know that this challenges all sorts of lines and giving consideration to both sides would cause all sorts of drama, but I think the current standard leaves men at a real disadvantage. Your choice ends on deciding where to stick your penis, regardless of safeguards that could very well fail. After that, every choice is/could be made for you. There's no right in that.


While there are certainly complications that can arise with regards to interactions (for instance, I do believe an abortion could be a legit reason for a divorce), my bottom line is that I think it's better for the freedom to be there than not. I see more problems with having less freedom there.


Ohhhh don't get me wrong. I completely agree with you on that. I don't have to necessarily LIKE abortion to know that the alternatives to it's legalization are horrible. I just wish there could be a way to give all parties involved more consideration. That's all I was trying to say.

Sorry that got all screwed up



Last edited by BurntOutMom on 10 Apr 2011, 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cave_canem
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10 Apr 2011, 10:50 pm

BurntOutMom wrote:
phil777 wrote:
I personnally find it amusing how on this forum, in this thread, it is mostly males discussing about female's rights.

Shouldn't the discussion be "mostly" be left to the ladies? I mean, it does concern THEM more than it concerns us. <.< We're not the ones having to go through pregnancy and emotionnal attachment (if there is any) to the lifeform they're carrying during that time


I was kind of snickering about the gender issue here. As a lady, ..... ok a female, I have to say there is a part of me that's very on the fence in this issue. I think it's not exactly right to give women all the say on how to deal with a pregnancy. Yes, Her body.... and I respect that.... but there is part of me that thinks that half of that DNA isn't hers... She can decided to abort and the man has no say. She can decide to keep the pregnancy, and the man has no say. I think that if a man is against abortion or really wants the child, some consideration should be given to that. If the man doesn't want a child, and he voices that opinion, I don't think it's right to slap him with child support later down the road, especially if abortion would have been his preference.

I know that this challenges all sorts of lines and giving consideration to both sides would cause all sorts of drama, but I think the current standard leaves men at a real disadvantage. Your choice ends on deciding where to stick your penis, regardless of safeguards that could very well fail. After that, every choice is/could be made for you. There's no right in that.


I actually don't disgaree with anything you've said. Which is why I know it would be a complicated matter for me, and I know I would never have an abortion (regardless of whether or not the father wanted the child, and I wouldn't chase after a man who didn't want a child, just as I wouldn't keep a man who wants to be a part of his child's life away from said child).

However, I do not think it is my place (or right) to make this type of decision for anyone else. Her body, her choice.